The Uggla Solution

nsacpi said:
I think we need to keep an open mind about those three. Pena's career numbers are poor, but over an extended period (winter ball, spring training, regular season) over the past nine months, he's performed at a higher level. Maybe just a hot streak, but it has been going on long enough to raise the possibility he has improved.

As for La Stella and Pastornicky, they are young enough that they have room for further growth. I hope the front office will keep an open mind and let them compete for playing time before spending resources on an external solution.
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Agreed, we should keep an open mind about them. Pena needs to just bat left handed, he seems to me a left handed hitter that wrongly thinks himself a switch hitter. I could see him and Pastornicky or Pastornicky and La Stella making a decent platoon at second. Further, it seems we are higher on Pastornicky than most on this forum. I think some wrongly assume he'll be a bad defender at second because he is so bad at short. But thus far his DRS at second is better than Pena's (while a small sample his defense at second was also fine in the minors).

Personally, I like the speed Pastornicky brings, if he can hit .275-.300 he has the speed to steal 30-40 bases (depending on where he hits in the line-up). This is also why batting average should be considered with him more than simply OPS (same goes for other stolen base threats). Hopefully the knee injury doesn't take away from his speed.
 
I'd be extremely disappointed if LaStella isn't given a chance to win the second base job out of spring training. Not sure what else he needs to show at the minor league level.
 
thethe said:
I'd be extremely disappointed if LaStella isn't given a chance to win the second base job out of spring training. Not sure what else he needs to show at the minor league level.
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If Uggla is still here, I think he'd need to do more than have a great spring to win the job. I could see both Pastornicky and La Stella hitting better than Uggla in Spring Training. But both are not likely to make the team if Uggla's still here. La Stella not being on the 40-man will be held against him too.
 
Realistically the three "alternatives" will be competing in spring training for the chance to be the one splitting playing time with Uggla during the regular season. The only situations where I don't see that happening is an injury to Uggla or a horrendous spring training on his part.

I do think Uggla will be on a fairly short leash. I could see him being released/designated for assignment if he isn't producing by the end of May.
 
nsacpi said:
Realistically the three "alternatives" will be competing in spring training for the chance to be the one splitting playing time with Uggla during the regular season. The only situations where I don't see that happening is an injury to Uggla or a horrendous spring training on his part.

I do think Uggla will be on a fairly short leash. I could see him being released/designated for assignment if he isn't producing by the end of May.
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I agree with you on the first paragraph, but I don't see him being released or DFA'd if he is struggling again by May. However, I could see him losing his regular starting role by then if not before hand. This of course assumes he's not moved this off-season (which is certainly what I am hoping happens).
 
There are 17 second basemen in the majors with enough ABs to qualify. Dan Uggla ranks dead last in batting average by a lot. He's hitting 31 points lower than the Cub's Darwin Barney.

He also ranks dead last in WAR with a -0.6. Also trailing Darwin Barney's -0.3.

He ranks a only slightly less embarrassing 15th out of 17 in OPS, eclipsing only Houston's Jose Altuve and the aforementioned Darwin Barney.

Uggla has just 76 hits. By comparison, the Cardinals Matt Carpenter has 169. Aaron Hill has 75 in 161 fewer ABs.

People tried to defend Uggla last year saying second base is a scarce position and that Uggla wasn't really that bad. There's no defending him this year. He's among the worst at his position in the game.
 
striker42 said:
There are 17 second basemen in the majors with enough ABs to qualify. Dan Uggla ranks dead last in batting average by a lot. He's hitting 31 points lower than the Cub's Darwin Barney.

He also ranks dead last in WAR with a -0.6. Also trailing Darwin Barney's -0.3.

He ranks a only slightly less embarrassing 15th out of 17 in OPS, eclipsing only Houston's Jose Altuve and the aforementioned Darwin Barney.

Uggla has just 76 hits. By comparison, the Cardinals Matt Carpenter has 169. Aaron Hill has 75 in 161 fewer ABs.

People tried to defend Uggla last year saying second base is a scarce position and that Uggla wasn't really that bad. There's no defending him this year. He's among the worst at his position in the game.
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Good points. It's also good to see you posting again Striker.
 
BTW, La Stella just had a ball go between his legs to tie up M-Braves playoff game against Mobile. It was even ruled a hit shockingly, talk about hometown scoring. I am sure Simmons would like to have such support in Atlanta.

That said, I still have a hard time believing La Stella could be worse defensively than Uggla.
 
Trading Kimbrel :facepalm:

Anyone who wants to trade him before 2015-2016 offseason is foolish.

Winning teams don't trade once in a generation closers. If we were the Twins, or someone like that who didn't look like they'd be winning anytime soon or ever then yeah you trade Kimbrel. But winning teams don't trade closers.
 
striker42 said:
There are 17 second basemen in the majors with enough ABs to qualify. Dan Uggla ranks dead last in batting average by a lot. He's hitting 31 points lower than the Cub's Darwin Barney.

He also ranks dead last in WAR with a -0.6. Also trailing Darwin Barney's -0.3.

He ranks a only slightly less embarrassing 15th out of 17 in OPS, eclipsing only Houston's Jose Altuve and the aforementioned Darwin Barney.

Uggla has just 76 hits. By comparison, the Cardinals Matt Carpenter has 169. Aaron Hill has 75 in 161 fewer ABs.

People tried to defend Uggla last year saying second base is a scarce position and that Uggla wasn't really that bad. There's no defending him this year. He's among the worst at his position in the game.
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And that's just his offense.
 
zitothebrave said:
Trading Kimbrel :facepalm:

Anyone who wants to trade him before 2015-2016 offseason is foolish.

Winning teams don't trade once in a generation closers. If we were the Twins, or someone like that who didn't look like they'd be winning anytime soon or ever then yeah you trade Kimbrel. But winning teams don't trade closers.
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Agreed. But I didn't feel the need to really debate the issue since Kimbrel is going no where this off-season. It's fantasy land stuff this talk of trading Kimbrel this off-season.
 
You all do realize that Kimbrel is from Alabama and grew up a die hard Braves fan, right? How can any of you speak intelligently about the type of money he will demand? Honestly. And please keep those ridiculous pipe dream trades to yourselves. " I'd do babe Ruth , Lou Gerig, and Roger Dorn for Kimbrel"...,listen to yourselves.
 
thethe said:
I'd be extremely disappointed if LaStella isn't given a chance to win the second base job out of spring training. Not sure what else he needs to show at the minor league level.
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As you can see I completely agree. His numbers are very impressive and what else does the guy have to prove? He's everything Uggla is not and exactly what we need in this line up. How do we get rid of Uggla is the question? I'd hate to leave La Stella in AAA while he's proven that he's pretty damn good at the plate to say the least. If he tears up the AFL I think it should be a slam dunk that he would our 2b for next year though who will take Uggla?
 
If Uggla replacement is a league min player than we could just DFA him and it wouldn't matter. I'm sure the Braves could save a couple of million dollars though. Would a team take Uggla for two years six million in total? Maybe.....
 
I believe my feelings on Uggla were made clear in a previous thread about him. I want him out of Atlanta badly. There are some stat-hounds that defend him as a three-outcome guy who can still put a charge in one from time-to-time, but his decline is pronounced and not being a guy blessed with much athleticism, the well for him isn't very deep when it comes to making adjustments. I thought he was coming around earlier in the year, but he can't seem to keep going with any kind of consistency anymore. Defensively, people can metric the guy all he wants to prove he's not as "bad as he looks," but even after that exercise, he's pretty bad.

The only bright side in this is that there may be some market for him as a DH in the AL. Don't get me wrong, we'll be eating multiple millions in salary if we move him, but there will likely be more of a market for him than there was for Lowe.

As for Kimbrel, I agree with some that closers--especially average-to-good ones--can be overrated. That said, great closers are extremely valuable. You build your bullpens from the 9th inning backwards and if you have an anchor for the 9th, things fall in place a lot easier. There's also a psychological edge in having a great closer that is impossible to quantify, but is still there. The problem for the Braves is that a lot of younger guys are going to get more expensive at the same time and that will make any decision on Kimbrel difficult. No question that he's on top right now and there would be a huge market for him if the decision is made to take offers.
 
The Yankees are paying almost $14M of Vernon Wells' salary this year and next. So anything is possible. I think our best hope would be a similar situation where a team that suffers some key injuries becomes desperate and does something stupid. It is a waiting game. But until then, I think management has to squarely face the issue of who gets playing time at second.
 
I agree. It's a waiting game, but a team in search of a bat (especially one in a hitter-friendly park) may fork over something for Uggla.
 
zitothebrave said:
Trading Kimbrel :facepalm:

Anyone who wants to trade him before 2015-2016 offseason is foolish.

Winning teams don't trade once in a generation closers. If we were the Twins, or someone like that who didn't look like they'd be winning anytime soon or ever then yeah you trade Kimbrel. But winning teams don't trade closers.
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Closers are overvalued, I've said before if Kimbrel would sign an extension in the 8-10 million range, I'd love to keep him.

Assuming that doesn't happen, I'd listen to offers and see if any team bites.
 
Anything that results in Uggla not being on the Braves next year I'm in favor of. I would eat 90% of his salary to make it work. I would even release him worst case.
 
Please just let him end up in the AL. Not only because some team over there would also want him as a DH BUT so that he won't be able to revive his career, play Atlanta several times and beat them like many ex-Braves do (thankfully, not as many in recent years)! The thought of Struggla remembering how to hit while playing for a NL team like the Dodgers, Nats, Brewers, et. al. would just enfuriate me more than anything (the dreaded Reggie Sanders Syndrome)! :mad:
 
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