This team is not in doomed for the next couple of years.

zitothebrave said:
Cabrera was only there for far of the season. Roark pitched last year, Fister has a low ERA but hasn't been amazing in the peripheral sense.
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Roark only started 5 games last year and how well Fister will do going forward is irrelevant to how well he pitched this year. Nats had a 36 fWAR team last year and a 47 fWAR team this year, I'm not sure how you can say Williams is responsible for that.
 
jason27nc said:
Matt Williams has not already been canned by another club when he failed miserable. I don't know how good Williams is but he obviously has them playing at a high level. Argue that fact!
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Nats have better talent than we do, Williams isnt a great manager, his team is just performing like its capable of.

Obviously ours is not but of course its all Fredi's fault, right?
 
jason27nc said:
Matt Williams has not already been canned by another club when he failed miserable. I don't know how good Williams is but he obviously has them playing at a high level. Argue that fact!
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They're playing at a higher level than last year because they have better players than last year. We are playing at a lower level than last year because we have worse players than last year.
 
jason27nc said:
Managers absolutely make a huge difference on a team. I have coached baseball all the way up to big time High School age kids. Yes the players have to perform but a good manager can even enhance that. It goes back to preparation and approach. One of the biggest things Fredi sucks at is managing a tight game late. Not to mention he does not have a clue at setting his lineups. I mean does this team know how to bunt? If not that is 100% on Fredi. If I can teach a 8 year old girl how to bunt, Fredi should be able to work with major league talent and have them bunt. Someone the other day hit the nail on the head with Jason Heyward. The guy has not clue what his role is. Everytime he gets going Fredi changes him and sticks him in a different spot in the lineup. NOT COOL! You have to know your players and you have to be able to put them in the position to succeed. Fredi fails at this more than any other thing on his long list of failures. Hell he batted Bj in the leadoff spot for two months. People on this board was saying how stupid that was on the first day of the season. I am not even going to get into his bullpen use.
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Thats all well and good but it doesn't explain why these problems are only hurting us this year and not the past 2 seasons.
 
zitothebrave said:
Is that the case?

Is Bryce Harper performing like he's capable?

Positition wise last year their top 5 players combined for a 19.7 fWAR this year their top 5 players combined for a 20.6 fWAR. An improvement, but hardly the only difference. Pitchingwise they improved in the rotation a bunch with Zimmerman pitching better, Strasburg pitching a full season (with the same basic stats) and Roark doing very well. Gio was basically equal to last year, and fister, well he's not been Fister, his ERA is way too far from his FIP, he's set for a major regression if he doesn't improve his peripherals. Nats pitching has been much improved, but it's the same potential we have with Minor, Julio, and Wood coming into their own.

I think many of our players under performed and I really think that we missed a lot of run creation opportunites because of Fredi. Our best hitters all year have been Fredi, Justin and Gattis who've spend all year hitting 3,4 and 5-6. We had **** in the 2-hole in front of them. 2nd hitters on the Braves had a sub .300 OBP and a sub .350 SLG. 6th worst in all of baseball. Who did we have to keep those numbers up? Gosselin and Simmons did well in the 2 hole respective to their numbers for the season. TLS was below his season average there. BUt the one who brought it up the most was (wait for it) Justin Upton.

Braves lineup is built so dumb, they're concerned about the wrong things.

Jason

Justin

Freddie

Gattis

Let the rest fall into place.
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Bryce, no.

But look at their lineup 1-8.

Ramos, LaRoche, Rendon, Desmond, Zimm/Cabrera, Harper, Span, Werth.

Where's the weak link in that lineup, hint there isnt one.

And Fister has a 2.41 ERA, he's been awesome for the Nats this year.

Even if you have Jason, Justin, FF, Gattis 1-4, that isnt a great top 4, you still have CJ, Simmons, 2B, BJ as the bottom 4 which are all weak links, our lineup is flawed as hell but this is somehow Fredi's fault.
 
Heyward said:
Nats have better talent than we do, Williams isnt a great manager, his team is just performing like its capable of.

Obviously ours is not but of course its all Fredi's fault, right?
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I never said it was all Fredi's fault. I said it has a lot to do with the FACT he is not a good manager. It is funny how you don't give the manager any credit in Washington and you don't blame Fredi at all for the awful job he has done.
 
jason27nc said:
Managers absolutely make a huge difference on a team. I have coached baseball all the way up to big time High School age kids. Yes the players have to perform but a good manager can even enhance that. It goes back to preparation and approach. One of the biggest things Fredi sucks at is managing a tight game late. Not to mention he does not have a clue at setting his lineups. I mean does this team know how to bunt? If not that is 100% on Fredi. If I can teach a 8 year old girl how to bunt, Fredi should be able to work with major league talent and have them bunt. Someone the other day hit the nail on the head with Jason Heyward. The guy has not clue what his role is. Everytime he gets going Fredi changes him and sticks him in a different spot in the lineup. NOT COOL! You have to know your players and you have to be able to put them in the position to succeed. Fredi fails at this more than any other thing on his long list of failures. Hell he batted Bj in the leadoff spot for two months. People on this board was saying how stupid that was on the first day of the season. I am not even going to get into his bullpen use.
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BJ at leadoff was dumb but how much of a difference does that make if Heyward is leadoff all year, maybe 4-5 wins?

Again talent usually wins out and our talent isnt as good as some of yall think it is.

Same goes for every sport.
 
keithlaw said:
They're playing at a higher level than last year because they have better players than last year. We are playing at a lower level than last year because we have worse players than last year.
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Someone gets it.
 
jason27nc said:
I never said it was all Fredi's fault. I said it has a lot to do with the FACT he is not a good manager. It is funny how you don't give the manager any credit in Washington and you don't blame Fredi at all for the awful job he has done.
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I never said Fredi has done a great job.

Is it Fredi's fault Simmons cant hit for ****.

Is it Fredi's fault Uggla fell off the face of the earth and forgot how to hit a baseball.

Is it Fredi's fault CJ regressed a LOT.

Is it Fredi's fault Avilan regressed a TON.

Matt Williams has done a good job but his players are performing for him, Fredi's are not, thats why the Nats are so good, and we arent.

Mattingly isnt a great manager but his team is so stacked it doesnt matter.

When you have good players, it covers up your flaws.

Buck Showalter has done a hell of a job, he's a great manager.

There's maybe 3-4 good managers in baseball, the rest are about the same.
 
Heyward said:
I never said Fredi has done a great job.

Is it Fredi's fault Simmons cant hit for ****.

Is it Fredi's fault Uggla fell off the face of the earth and forgot how to hit a baseball.

Is it Fredi's fault CJ regressed a LOT.

Is it Fredi's fault Avilan regressed a TON.

Matt Williams has done a good job but his players are performing for him, Fredi's are not, thats why the Nats are so good, and we arent.

Mattingly isnt a great manager but his team is so stacked it doesnt matter.

When you have good players, it covers up your flaws.

Buck Showalter has done a hell of a job, he's a great manager.

There's maybe 3-4 good managers in baseball, the rest are about the same.
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It's Fredi's fault Simmons bats #2.

It's Fredi's fault we even GOT Uggla.

That one is mostly on Walker and Fletcher, but Fredi should've started sitting him vs RHP.

It's Fredi's fault for killing his arm last year and continually using him this year in pressure situations.
 
Avilan turning back into a pumpkin isn't a surprise. He was an org guy until 2012. He had a nice run for 1.5 seasons, but to expect a guy who sucked in the minors to be good in the majors is wishful thinking.
 
Venters sucked in the minors. Hale sucked in the minors. Prado sucked in the minors. Millwood sucked in the minors. Beachy was an org reliever until a year before he hit the majors. Eric O'Flaherty and Carpenter were waiver pickups.
 
Yes, it is.

Jim Bowden @JimBowden_ESPN
John Hart just told us that he’d like to go forward w/ Fredi Gonzalez & that he deserves to come back for another year @MLBNetworkRadio
 
keithlaw said:
Roark only started 5 games last year and how well Fister will do going forward is irrelevant to how well he pitched this year. Nats had a 36 fWAR team last year and a 47 fWAR team this year, I'm not sure how you can say Williams is responsible for that.
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I don't believe he alone is responsible for that. He certainly played a part. So much of baseball success especially as a hitter is mental. If you put guys in a situation to succeed and they do they gain confidence and fall into better hitting habits and hit more. While talent for sure plays a part, the Nats on paper going into last year were just as strong as this year. Thedifference was execution, is that just randomness? Or is it good management?

Nats as you pointed out added 11 fWAR, the 2 pitchers you listed added 4.5 of that, last year Haren and Detwiler had a 2.4. SO that only explains about 2 of that net gain. You don't think confidence in the manager plays a part in it?
 
Dalyn said:
Yes, it is.

Jim Bowden @JimBowden_ESPN
John Hart just told us that he’d like to go forward w/ Fredi Gonzalez & that he deserves to come back for another year @MLBNetworkRadio
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Well, I'm gonna e a fan of Jason next year it looks like. No reason even thinking about following the team, we won't win **** with that clown at the helm. 2 epic september collapses, and this one he can't blame on injuries. Just the worst. Fredi should be on the first bus out of town, if he isn't then the whole FO should be on the first bus out of town. Unreal.

This team doesn't deserve anyone's fandom if they don't care about winning and care more about loyalty. ****ing bull****.
 
There is a lot of randomness in baseball even over the course of a 162 game season. See the Red Sox roller coaster of recent years for an extreme example.

Of course none of that excuses not trying to get every little detail right in an attempt to maximize your team's chances. Fredi imo is an average manager who had a poor year. Among the Braves coaches, I think both TP and McDowell would do better as the manager. It wouldn't be a huge difference. Maybe a couple extra wins. But you want to do everything possible to help the team.
 
A couple extra wins can be huge though. I dont think our collapse happens with a competent manager. Our guys look like they quit. That's unacceptable.
 
zitothebrave said:
A couple extra wins can be huge though. I dont think our collapse happens with a competent manager. Our guys look like they quit. That's unacceptable.
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Exactly right. When the Braves were struggling in 2010 in September, they never looked like they'd quit and they pulled it out and survived. Same with Oakland this year. After the Lester trade, things spiraled and some teams would've lost it. The minute it looked like Oakland might quit, Melvin called them out on it and they never had that look again. And they survived.
 
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