THURSDAY MINORS FINAL 6/20/19; Big night for Pache

striker42 said:
I didn't rail at that pick as much as I railed at the strategy of drafting 3 lower ceiling college bats with the first three picks. I felt Shewmake was a reach at 21 but if we had gone higher risk with our other two picks, I'd have been okay with it. I was wanting someone with a shot at being a superstar and with our first two picks we got likely major leaguers but not guys who are going to have the ability to carry the team. It was a disappointing strategy to me.

The pick I really hated was Philip at 60. I still don't get drafting him at all.
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The baseball draft, as much as any draft is a dart throw. You know that.

You just seem to have an axe to grind as much as anyone on this FO. It shows. And that's fine, but overall they have done an excellent job.
 
50PoundHead said:
Very true seeing he was drafted 7th the year he was drafted. I remember the discussion on the old Scout board about Markakis and the Braves were really hot on him that year, but they liked him more as a pitcher than a hitter. Of course, in those days, the Braves liked everyone more as a pitcher. Braves had two comp picks that year--#'s 35 and 36 with which they drafted Atilano and Saltalamacchia--and Markakis was never going to fall that far.

Just did a quick look, and of all the guys drafted in the first round in 2003, Markakis has the highest WAR, nudging out Adam Jones, who was the last pick in the round at #37.
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man, Markakis was maybe a pitcher? where did his arm go?!
 
jpx7 said:
(unless his 2019 Rome stint mirrors his 2019 Danville tenure).
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Considering he pitched for Florida last night, I guess Bacon’s 2019 Rome stint was a lot like his 2019 Danville tenure.
 
I still can’t decide if I love this draft or hate this draft. Like Striker, this draft annoys me because there’s not enough ceiling in our pics. But I think I like this draft because I don’t think there was a lot of ceiling left by the time we picked so I’m kind of digging the strategy of a lot of higher floor guys With some lottery tickets in the later rounds.
 
striker42 said:
I'm actually a fan of Markakis. Most negative stuff about him is defense related and I'm not comparing Shewmake's defense to his, only the bat.

Here's a line for Shewmake:

.274 BA, .363 OBP, .421 SLG, 11.9 K%

I think that's a very reasonable line for him at the plate. Maybe a bit higher BA but fewer walks so the OBP stays the same. But that would be a very successful line for Shewmake.

That's also Markakis' current line.
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You were not intending that positively.
 
50PoundHead said:
Wilson did have some issues. He was sent home early from Danville in 2016, but he came back there in 2017 and started to look like a player. I always thought the Braves pushed him too aggressively and he never shook the strikeout habit. But, as you say, he was highly regarded by the Braves and he didn't break the bank when they signed him. I believe he signed for $125,000. Hardly a big splash.
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I'm guilty of having bought into the raw talent argument on Wilson. Hate that they gave up, but have to figure that the reputation for not having great attitude off the field had something to do with it.
 
Super said:
man, Markakis was maybe a pitcher? where did his arm go?!
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He was a two-way player at Young Harris. I don't know what his pitch repertoire consisted of, but he struck out 98 guys in 91 innings his 1st year in JC ball. Lousy control, however, with a walk rate of nearly 5 per game. His 2nd year he went through the roof, striking out 160 guys in 96 innings with much improved control, walking only 33. He was Baseball America's National JUCO Player of the Year in 2003. In addition to his stellar pitching in 2003, he hit .439 with 21 HRs in 223 ABs.
 
Southcack77 said:
I'm guilty of having bought into the raw talent argument on Wilson. Hate that they gave up, but have to figure that the reputation for not having great attitude off the field had something to do with it.
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Same here. I became a devoted Isranelite after he led the GCL in HRs his first season. You just never know how these guys are going to turn out. It seems to be an even bigger crapshoot in the international market than in the stateside draft.
 
Super said:
i don't see how that's true.
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I think its true of the two first round picks. They were more high floor picks. And there were several higher ceilings picks taken after them.

In the case of Langeliers, there were several players taken after him (Bishop, Carroll, Rutledge, Manoah) who were arguably higher ceiling.

In the case of Shewmake, there were HS pitchers taken after him (Espino, Walston and Malone) that were arguably higher ceiling.

The most reliable rule of thumb for the 1st round imo is to go for the highest ceiling. And I don't think we did that.
 
nsacpi said:
I think its true of the two first round picks. They were more high floor picks. And there were several higher ceilings picks taken after them.

In the case of Langeliers, there were several players taken after him (Bishop, Carroll, Rutledge, Manoah) who were arguably higher ceiling.

In the case of Shewmake, there were HS pitchers taken after him (Espino, Walston and Malone) that were arguably higher ceiling.

The most reliable rule of thumb for the 1st round imo is to go for the highest ceiling. And I don't think we did that.
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I would still say lottery over high ceiling. But in essence we are saying the same thing
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I would still say lottery over high ceiling. But in essence we are saying the same thing
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Each pick is a lottery for sure. Going high ceiling doesn't guarantee success for a particular pick. But I think over time it gives you the best chance for success.
 
nsacpi said:
I think its true of the two first round picks. They were more high floor picks. And there were several higher ceilings picks taken after them.

In the case of Langeliers, there were several players taken after him (Bishop, Carroll, Rutledge, Manoah) who were arguably higher ceiling.

In the case of Shewmake, there were HS pitchers taken after him (Espino, Walston and Malone) that were arguably higher ceiling.

The most reliable rule of thumb for the 1st round imo is to go for the highest ceiling. And I don't think we did that.
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i think Langeliers' ceiling is being way undersold. i don't think they were the highest ceiling picks possible and i wouldn't claim that, but i don't think either of them lack ceiling, either. it's really tough to say without seeing trackman data that's supposedly out there.
 
I think one thing that happens when teams get to the point where everyone considers them the gold standard for a second is that people have a tendency to start over-exalting every thing they do whether it plays a significant role in their success or not. Or whether it was in fact something that any team would have done in the same situation.

The new buzz word is using depth and versatility to set up platoon situations. Hardly a new concept, but one that is sexy again because some winning teams are doing it.

Having a bunch of guys with certain strengths that can deploy by matchups is certainly a nice thing to have. I wish Atlanta would do more of that at least in moderation.

But at the end of the day, I do not think the Chris Taylors and Kike Hernandez's of the world are the reason the Dodgers are successful.

I would like to think the Braves see more in Shewmake than that at 21, but it does seem like a pretty weak draft class so maybe that's about all you can do there. I'm not thrilled by Shewmake primarily because his bat showed no real improvement over his time at TAMU. On one hand it was consistent, but the lack of progress calls the upside into question. Maybe a professional workout regimen will add that missing power though.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
No one compares to Cater’s hype last year. Do you think any of our picks could get 4+ million from Japan?
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i'm not sure what this has to do with Langerlier's and Shewmake's ceiling. i do think Langeliers could probably get that in Japan tho. Stewart did after a poor season.
 
Super said:
i think Langeliers' ceiling is being way undersold. i don't think they were the highest ceiling picks possible and i wouldn't claim that, but i don't think either of them lack ceiling, either. it's really tough to say without seeing trackman data that's supposedly out there.
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I agree with this. He's not given his due. And players of comparable or lesser talent have been blown up in the particular fancies of Braves fans for some reason to be a bit more than what the media and the real experts think.
 
Super said:
i think Langeliers' ceiling is being way undersold. i don't think they were the highest ceiling picks possible and i wouldn't claim that, but i don't think either of them lack ceiling, either. it's really tough to say without seeing trackman data that's supposedly out there.
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Agreed. A top notch defensive catcher that can and has shown data that the bat could be plus is a HUGE ceiling.

I think folks think we are getting a player that is finished and can't improve which newsflash is what the minors is for.
 
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