TLHLIM
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I love when people believe twitter lies. He was appointed by Walz (after being appointed by Dayton) to a nonpartisan Governor’s Workforce Development Board. More appropriate
"
Boelter is listed as the director of security patrols for Praetorian Guard Security Services, a private security company that operates in the Twin Cities. The company’s website highlights the use of “police type vehicles” — specifically Ford Explorers — as part of its services."
Who is Vance Boelter, the man wanted in the assassination of Melissa Hortman?
The man who authorities say impersonated a police officer and shot two state lawmakers north of the Twin Cities is believed to be 57-year-old Vance Boelter, multiple sources told the Associated Press.
kstp.com
Also convenient he only targetted dems. Surely someone on the left would target reps too.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
"There was an extensive list of possible targets among writings found in Boelter's vehicle. The list included more than 50 individuals including officials outside of Minnesota, and including abortion rights advocates and abortion facilities. "
Such a libtard.
I did reflect on the events today, and here are my thoughts:
First, I think it’s a bit premature to assume the motivations of the shooter, but that has been true across the political spectrum, and it certainly does seem likely he was reacting to their votes breaking with the party line. But this is all still speculative at the moment.
But assuming it’s true that he was radicalized by leftist rhetoric, I ultimately look at it similarly to the institutional racism debate in that there’s components I find compelling and components I don’t. In both cases, I think the environment being fostered can be contributive to the overall outcomes, but that it is not directly culpable for the actions of an individual acting in a criminal manner. So basically even if the whole system is rigged and certain institutions fail black Americans in the exact manner progressives claim, it does not excuse the actions of someone committing violence or taking from others. Likewise, politicians using hyperbolic rhetoric about the opposition party should be discussed when political violence occurs. But it’s not like Bernie Sanders pulled any triggers today and he hasn’t even come close to asking for something like this. So while I think it’s always a good time to do less of calling people the Gestapo and aggressively evoking worst-case-scenarios for every action, I think people are ultimately accountable for their own actions and really can’t say I *blame* rhetoric on this act.
But while given my views on systemic racism that would seem to lead me toward largely agreeing with you, there’s also a couple of key differences to me. First is that the type of political rhetoric you’re referring to is simply not some exclusive liberal problem. Conservatives are every bit as bad as Liberals when it comes to aggressive and violent rhetoric. It’s a byproduct of the Trump Era, and I actually don’t mean that Trump is at fault in any way for it. Trump is just the very clear winner of the political environment that turned tribal and secluded with the rise of social media. Once the country’s not best and not brightest found a way to connect across the nation, an anger of the other side has taken hold of both the left and the right across all walks of life.
People have grown increasingly unable to coexist with people who differ from them in some way, whether that’s Nancy Mace devoting her life to go after individual trans people for political clout or the Democrats pretending someone being a dick at a press conference and getting (too) aggressively removed for being a dick at a press conference is the end of democracy. Almost all of the political discourse on social media these days centers around paid influencers we all hate saying things to piss us off. This was simmering long before Trump ever got here, he’s just the perfect embodiment of the culture. He’s cruel for the sake of being cruel, constantly online stirring up the culture war, brazenly devoted to making the Federal Government the main character of American life, but charismatic and funny enough to be good for ratings.
None of those things have anything to do with his policies or political stances. He’s bad in the same way the entirety of American politics is bad right now. So when you ask me solely if I think the Democrats should look in the mirror because someone got shot, I question your sincerity knowing the rest of the national political rhetoric.
Second, the trend of this type of political violence is being deeply overstated because of how sensational it is. The country is not overrun with progressives ready to murder every last dissenter. We all must always forcefully condemn any political violence committed for or against one’s own side, but I’ve not really seen Democratic leaders advocate for violence. We can have a discussion about the policies that might contribute to it and how Democrats are responsible through mismanagement, intentional or otherwise. But I think it’s directly wrong to suggest the mainstream Democratic Party is advocating for senseless murder.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I'll make the following points:
1) If the perp turns out to be Christian it does not reflect badly on Christianity or other Christians
2) If he turns out to be white it does not reflect badly on white people
3) If he turns out to be opposed to abortion it does not reflect badly on opponents of abortion
4) If he turns out to have voted for a particular candidate in any election, it does not reflect badly on people who voted that way
1) If the perp turns out to be Christian it does not reflect badly on Christianity or other Christians
2) If he turns out to be white it does not reflect badly on white people
3) If he turns out to be opposed to abortion it does not reflect badly on opponents of abortion
4) If he turns out to have voted for a particular candidate in any election, it does not reflect badly on people who voted that way
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
If you ever wanted to debate I'd be open to it, you're not here to debate, you're shit posting hoping for a gotcha. I'm gonna return said bullshit back to you.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Like you come here after a tragedy and are like "OH LOOK HE'S A DEM, WALZ KNEW HIM PERSONALLY" or whatever the fuck we get.
www.newsweek.com
"Despite serving under Democratic governors, Boelter last registered to vote in 2022 as a Republican, according to the New York Post."
You tried to make it political then said "no self reflection today" and yet you failed at self reflection. You blamed this on "the left" but somehow "the left" needs to reflect.
Who is Vance Boelter? What we know about suspect in Democrat assassination
The suspect remains at large while hundreds of law enforcement officers from multiple agencies conduct an intensive manhunt.
www.newsweek.com
"Despite serving under Democratic governors, Boelter last registered to vote in 2022 as a Republican, according to the New York Post."
You tried to make it political then said "no self reflection today" and yet you failed at self reflection. You blamed this on "the left" but somehow "the left" needs to reflect.
To be fair, these aren’t mutually exclusive needs. In an event where someone murders someone over politics, it’s good to reflect on whether or not you’re guilty of participating in or contributing to an environment that has become dangerously polarized. The country had had a lot of time to wonder the politics of the shooter as if we’re going to find some great and sombering truth about the current state of American politics if he’s on the other team.Like you come here after a tragedy and are like "OH LOOK HE'S A DEM, WALZ KNEW HIM PERSONALLY" or whatever the fuck we get.
Who is Vance Boelter? What we know about suspect in Democrat assassination
The suspect remains at large while hundreds of law enforcement officers from multiple agencies conduct an intensive manhunt.
"Despite serving under Democratic governors, Boelter last registered to vote in 2022 as a Republican, according to the New York Post."
You tried to make it political then said "no self reflection today" and yet you failed at self reflection. You blamed this on "the left" but somehow "the left" needs to reflect.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
sturg33
I
I recall a prominent dem strategy in 2022 telling its base to register as republicans to support easier to beat republicans in the primaryLike you come here after a tragedy and are like "OH LOOK HE'S A DEM, WALZ KNEW HIM PERSONALLY" or whatever the fuck we get.
Who is Vance Boelter? What we know about suspect in Democrat assassination
The suspect remains at large while hundreds of law enforcement officers from multiple agencies conduct an intensive manhunt.
"Despite serving under Democratic governors, Boelter last registered to vote in 2022 as a Republican, according to the New York Post."
You tried to make it political then said "no self reflection today" and yet you failed at self reflection. You blamed this on "the left" but somehow "the left" needs to reflect.
The dude is a liberal. They didn't release hos.manifesto for a reason.
This isn't an isolated event
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I don't accept the characterization that he is a "nutter Christian nationalist" and I don't accept yours. He's a disturbed individual who perhaps snapped under the stress of financial problems.
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sturg33
I
I'm sort of skipping to your last paragraph .
I completely disagree about this not being fault of democrat rhetoric. Luigi has been made out to be a hero from prominent people in the left sphere, including media. And while im not familiar with politicians cheering him on, several indicated a willingness to empathize with the killers rationale as to a broken system
Secondly, we see violent riots commonly now in leftist cities. And the response from politicians is not to squash it (like Gov Desantis)... but rather blame republicans and Trump, thereby justifying the actions. Then of course there is a lack of meaningful punishment, which indirectly gives approval to do it again
Third, the rhetoric from dem politicians is absolutely calling for violence consistently. I have posted the Mashup many many times. When Schumer tells Kavanaugh that they are coming for him, why won't a deranged mentally ill liberal become a hero by trying to kill him? When every dem politician implies Trump is another Hitler or King. Why wouldn't a deranged mentally ill leftist try to assassinate him? When dems are daily saying Israel is committing a genocide against the peaceful Palestinians, why shouldn't someone who believes in the cause fight back by murdering ambassadors in DC? When Bernie lectures us that healthcare companies are murdering innocent people, why wouldn't Luigi try to settle the score? When Rand Paul votes to end Medicare, why shouldn't his neighbor break his ribs? When congressmen Horton votes against funding to keep poor immigrants alive, why shouldn't she be shot?
I'm not asking to put Bernie Sanders on trial. But I am asking him and the rest of the lot to look inward about how their sensationalism has radicalized the fringe of the party. We know via real world data that leftists are commonly mentally ill, so the constant fear mongering and the calls to resist and fight the injustice is an implicit call for these desperate people to do something about it
And yes im sure you can find Charlie Kirk or Catturd with rhetoric that would be similar, but good luck finding it from elected GOP officials in any meaningful way. If you want to do a compare/contrast, I'd bet my life savings you'd be hard pressed to find rhetoric from the right in the same universe as what Bernie, Maxine Waters, AOC, Schumer, Pelosi, any many many others have gleefully shouted. "They should never know peace"
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
See when I say there's no debating this is what I'm talking about. When I laugh at sturg's self reflection, this is what I'm talking about.
Only one person in here is politicising this tragedy but others are supposed to self reflect? LOL
sturg33
I
I'm merely pointing out that registering as a republican in 2022 means nothing considering the entire party strategy that year was to register libs as republicans to influence republican primaries
All of the evidence suggest this is a leftist looney who got pissed this particular congressmen voted against the dems
Maybe the authorities will release his manifesto to clear up any confusion but like with every other leftist mentally deranged they keep it quiet because they don't want to expose the insanity of these lunatics
And again, this is not an isolated event. Political violence is a near daily occurrence with the left these days