Today's lineup suggestion - All About Gattis!

People better get used to Evan Gattis being a brave. Don't discount his marketing value to the Braves. The fans love him and he makes money for the organization.
 
thethe said:
People better get used to Evan Gattis being a brave. Don't discount his marketing value to the Braves. The fans love him and he makes money for the organization.
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He has 3 or 4 more years. He'll be in his 30s at that point and I have a hunch he'll break down fast and his HR totals will net big arb numbers.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
This comment is galactically retarded.

Gattis isn't all power; Gattis can flat hit. It's not like he's a caveman up there with a cudgel. Good lord, he's hitting .380 and slugging .600. Who gives a **** if he walks? They'll stop pitching to him soon enough, and he'll get some walks.

To insult his catching means you aren't watching or listening. He blocks and frames very well, he's got a gun, the pitchers love throwing to him. The starters' ERA is below 2.00. Exactly what the f*** does the guy need to do to stop with the "plug him in until Bet's ready" crowd? He's Johnny Bench and Bethancourt is Johnny Estrada.
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I have severe doubts about Gattis's ability to block.

Gattis last year had 17 WP and 2 PB in 349.2 innings. Laird had 14 and 2 in 429, Mac had 17 and 3 in 806.1 innings. Gattis clearly has the most balls get by him in a per inning basis. That is concerning. Could be flukey but he's well onto similar numbers this year. He's solid of course but I wouldn't say he's anything special behind the plate. I'd say he's above average at framing and throwing guys out, and below average at blocking. Step down from Mac and absolutely a big step down from Bethancourt. Bethancourt by all reports (haven't seen him play enough to confirm) is more like Yadier Molina defensively which is clearly in a different class than Gattis.

I'm on the cautious with Bethancourt thing. But I absolutely thing we have catcher time split basically down the middle next year unles we trade one of Bethancourt or Gattis.
 
I remember reading an article in Bill James' baseball annual perhaps 20 years ago in which Bill advanced the hypothesis that offense is far more important than defense, and that in order to optimize offense, players should play at the absolute toughest position they can play competently.

That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than giving Carlos Gomez and Gerardo Parra credit for phantom wins above replacement.

Anybody have any question - any at all - whether Gattis is a competent catcher? Clearly he is. Until Bethancourt can OPS .800-.850 in the show, I'd say he looks good in Gwinnett - where, by the way, he isn't walking, either, but is also hitting under the UU line.*

*Upton-Uggla. Nobody even remembers Mario Mendoza, and sure as hell nobody paid him $13m.
 
zitothebrave said:
He has 3 or 4 more years. He'll be in his 30s at that point and I have a hunch he'll break down fast and his HR totals will net big arb numbers.
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That's fine. But there is no reason to consider replacing him for.the next few years.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
I remember reading an article in Bill James' baseball annual perhaps 20 years ago in which Bill advanced the hypothesis that offense is far more important than defense, and that in order to optimize offense, players should play at the absolute toughest position they can play competently.

That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than giving Carlos Gomez and Gerardo Parra credit for phantom wins above replacement.

Anybody have any question - any at all - whether Gattis is a competent catcher? Clearly he is. Until Bethancourt can OPS .800-.850 in the show, I'd say he looks good in Gwinnett - where, by the way, he isn't walking, either, but is also hitting under the UU line.*

*Upton-Uggla. Nobody even remembers Mario Mendoza, and sure as hell nobody paid him $13m.
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Well part of the problem with something 20 years ago has to do with the advancement of statistical analysis and the influence of certain parts of baseball on FA that drives up the cost of certain assets.

Bethancourt is our future catcher by almost all standards. Unless he craps the bed offensively in the minors. I'm fine with Gattis at catcher in the interim.

Yadier Molina is a great example of letting a toolsy player develop. Yadier didn't show his offensive potential until he was 28 and started killing it and is now a perennial MVP candidate. That's the potential you have with Bethancourt.
 
zitothebrave said:
Well part of the problem with something 20 years ago has to do with the advancement of statistical analysis and the influence of certain parts of baseball on FA that drives up the cost of certain assets.

Bethancourt is our future catcher by almost all standards. Unless he craps the bed offensively in the minors. I'm fine with Gattis at catcher in the interim.

Yadier Molina is a great example of letting a toolsy player develop. Yadier didn't show his offensive potential until he was 28 and started killing it and is now a perennial MVP candidate. That's the potential you have with Bethancourt.
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Defense doesn't mean as much as the metrics suggest, then or now. It is not worthless, certainly, but if Dan Uggla OBPs .360 with 30 homers, as long as he is an adequate defender, he's an excellent second baseman. The idea of paying Gerardo Parra $20m is absurd, but that's what the WARmongers would have you do.

The Bethancourt/Molina comparison leaves me absolutely cold. I don't see it. Bethancourt can't hit and isn't going to. He's a real good catch and throw guy just like Henry Blanco and a thousand others. Gattis is a leader and a gamechanger. He's a horse, flat out.

There ought to be a way to categorize a guy who not only has a tool, but is in the top 5%. In addition to being an excellent hitter, Gattis has light tower power. That one tool should get credit for two tools.
 
thethe said:
That's fine. But there is no reason to consider replacing him for.the next few years.
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Which is what I'm suggesting. I think once Gattis starts getting paid like a 30 HR catcher, it will be time to turn him loose. That's not for a couple of years from now.
 
I agree with Gov that Bet hasn't shown enough at the plate yet. But I think we'd be idiots not to let him try before giving up on him. He's only 22 (maybe 21?), and has shown flashes of potential. If he puts it all together, we will have a freakin stud on our hands
 
sturg33 said:
Which is what I'm suggesting. I think once Gattis starts getting paid like a 30 HR catcher, it will be time to turn him loose. That's not for a couple of years from now.
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And if he continues to be a 30HR catcher for the next 2-3 years I think we should expect an extension to be worked out. Its not like Gattis is all of a sudden going to become a weak hitter. His power will stay with him into his 30's. This is a Brian Maccann situation where you are concerned about his body type. Gattis is a physical specimen and until his body type changes then I wouldn't expect his power to be completely gone.
 
I wouldnt expect Gattis' power to go away in this millenium. He may even have a future as a hitting coach down the road.

Watch his feet, watch his hands, watch his head. NO MOVEMENT.

And Wednesday nite, I swear it appeared to me that he moved up in the box after Lee struck him out his first AB with the breaking stuff. Bingo, HR.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
I wouldnt expect Gattis' power to go away in this millenium. He may even have a future as a hitting coach down the road.

Watch his feet, watch his hands, watch his head. NO MOVEMENT.

And Wednesday nite, I swear it appeared to me that he moved up in the box after Lee struck him out his first AB with the breaking stuff. Bingo, HR.
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Lee didn't get him out once. Gattis is the man.
 
If any of you get a chance to go to a game early to watch Gattis take batting practice, it is worth the expedition.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Defense doesn't mean as much as the metrics suggest, then or now. It is not worthless, certainly, but if Dan Uggla OBPs .360 with 30 homers, as long as he is an adequate defender, he's an excellent second baseman. The idea of paying Gerardo Parra $20m is absurd, but that's what the WARmongers would have you do.

The Bethancourt/Molina comparison leaves me absolutely cold. I don't see it. Bethancourt can't hit and isn't going to. He's a real good catch and throw guy just like Henry Blanco and a thousand others. Gattis is a leader and a gamechanger. He's a horse, flat out.

There ought to be a way to categorize a guy who not only has a tool, but is in the top 5%. In addition to being an excellent hitter, Gattis has light tower power. That one tool should get credit for two tools.
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So you are comparing the defensive worth of a RF to a 2B and a catcher?

Was Molina a good hitter at age 22?

What makes Gattis a "leader?" Does he have great makeup?

Gattis hit .240 last year with a terrible OBP. Im not sure how we gather he's an excellent hitter (when used in a context that is seperate from power) You are claiming that he's an excellent hitter PLUS has light tower power? Its more like he has great power, which somewhat offsets his lack of skills at hitting for a high average or getting on base.
 
thethe said:
And if he continues to be a 30HR catcher for the next 2-3 years I think we should expect an extension to be worked out. Its not like Gattis is all of a sudden going to become a weak hitter. His power will stay with him into his 30's. This is a Brian Maccann situation where you are concerned about his body type. Gattis is a physical specimen and until his body type changes then I wouldn't expect his power to be completely gone.
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Lets have him hit 30 homers as a catcher before projecting that he's going to "continue" to do so.

As for him holding up, how many outside of Piazza (possibly steriod aided) help up into their mid 30s? Pudge Rogriguez really fell off, wasnt he in great shape? Joe Mauer has moved from catcher. Jason Kendall seemed to be in good shape.
 
gilesfan said:
Lets have him hit 30 homers as a catcher before projecting that he's going to "continue" to do so.

As for him holding up, how many outside of Piazza (possibly steriod aided) help up into their mid 30s? Pudge Rogriguez really fell off, wasnt he in great shape? Joe Mauer has moved from catcher. Jason Kendall seemed to be in good shape.
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I'm not saying we should keep him at catcher until his mid 30's but people are rushing to put CB in there righ tnow. Gattis is going to be productive for the next 4-5 years most likely. He is starting to go the other way now and once he gets that down he will be getting lots of big hits.

And you can't comprae Gattis to other catchers. Those other guys you were talking about caught a lot of innings before the age of 25. That isn't the case with Gattis.
 
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