Trade Deadline Day

[gilesfan]

Yes, Hamels is an ace and Lee will still be good but he won't be the Lee of 2 years ago. Petibone is a back of the rotation type guy. Its funny that Ruf is good but Gattis was a nobody coming into this year.

phillies are done.

Last year-

Ruif (25) AA- .317/.408/.620
Gattis (25) AA- .258/.343/.522

Ruif in the majors in limited at bats also has a line of .309/.389/.567
Gattis in the majors (limited at bats) has a line of .258/.308/.514

And don't even look at the numbers in June and July for Gattis. ugh.

 

[Dunit24]

Numbers support you but 100% id take Gattis over Ruif. I think most people would.

 

[nsacpi]

Last year-

Ruif (25) AA- .317/.408/.620
Gattis (25) AA- .258/.343/.522

Ruif in the majors in limited at bats also has a line of .309/.389/.567
Gattis in the majors (limited at bats) has a line of .258/.308/.514

And don't even look at the numbers in June and July for Gattis. ugh.

It just amazes me that you continue thinking Gattis' AA numbers from last year are in any way worthy of being used. At least you acknowledge the small sample. But don't you also realize that part of that small sample included some games where he tried to play with an injured wrist and another portion of the sample included games where he was rusty when coming back from the wrist injury.

 

[thethe]

It just amazes me that you continue thinking Gattis' AA numbers from last year are in any way worthy of being used. At least you acknowledge the small sample. But don't you also realize that part of that small sample included some games where he tried to play with an injured wrist and another portion of the sample included games where he was rusty when coming back from the wrist injury.

Yeah, Gattis was absoultely destroying the ball in AA before he got hurt and started hitting again towards the end of the year. GF just has egg on his face with Gattis so he doesn't want to look even worse. Gattis may not be the hitting star that I thought but he is a major league defensive catcher who can hit 30+ homers in a full season of ball.

Lets use Gattis' major league numbers coming off of an injury as well and not the ones where he was healthy in the year. Gattis is going to be a 5-10 year major leaguer at least.

 

[nsacpi]

The Madoff stuff is supposedly behind them. The Mets have the potential to be extremely profitable. The fanbase is re-energized becuase of Harvey/Wheeler. They will start to spend money when the players out there are worth it.

I've been to a couple games at Citifield this year. I wouldn't say it is a re-energized fan base.

 

[gilesfan]

Gattis has an OBP of .308 this year despite his hot start. Give me a break about how he's an offensive star.

I forgot, Ncapi likes to use Venezuelan league numbers:

Add in about 30 games worth over there.

Gattis .303/.365/.595
Ruf .258/.368/.575

There is no way in hell Gattis is a better hitter than Ruf.

 

[nsacpi]

Gattis has an OBP of .308 this year despite his hot start. Give me a break about how he's an offensive star.

I forgot, Ncapi likes to use Venezuelan league numbers:

Add in about 30 games worth over there.

Gattis .303/.365/.595
Ruf .258/.368/.575

There is no way in hell Gattis is a better hitter than Ruf.

Ruf BABIP this year .436.

Gattis BABIP this year .265.

Draw your own conclusions.

As I recall our debate from a few months ago had to do with whether Gattis' VL numbers would be a better predictor of his ML performance than his SL performance. Thanks for bringing that up.

Would you like to make a bet as to which of Ruf or Gattis will put up the better OPS numbers during the remaining two months of this year?

 

[thethe]

Evan Gattis is still learning how to hit offspeed stuff. For a guy learning at the major league level he is doing a very good job.

What about his defense GF? Were you wrong about that?

 

[gilesfan]

Evan Gattis is still learning how to hit offspeed stuff. For a guy learning at the major league level he is doing a very good job.

What about his defense GF? Were you wrong about that?

His defense at catcher has gotten better and is better than I thought. His defense in left or 1B is unacceptable.

 

[thethe]

His defense at catcher has gotten better and is better than I thought. His defense in left or 1B is unacceptable.

I think he can play a passable LF/1B but not a guy you want out there multiple days in a row.

 

[gilesfan]

I think he can play a passable LF/1B but not a guy you want out there multiple days in a row.

Ask Kris Medlen what he things

 

[zitothebrave]

Gattis has an OBP of .308 this year despite his hot start. Give me a break about how he's an offensive star.

I forgot, Ncapi likes to use Venezuelan league numbers:

Add in about 30 games worth over there.

Gattis .303/.365/.595
Ruf .258/.368/.575

There is no way in hell Gattis is a better hitter than Ruf.

While I won't definitively say Gattis>Ruf as both are highly risky.

But if you look at more than just the normal slash

Ruf 11.8 BB% 30.3 K% .188 iso .436 BABIP 19.5 LD%

Gattis 6.2 BB% 22.0 K% .259 iso .265 BABIP 15.9 LD%

So if you extrapolate those numbers you would expect Ruf to have a higher BABIP, but since Gattis puts more BIP his slash line is more along his expected lines while Ruf is way above his. If you normalize his BABIP to say .300 his slash line would be .218/.342/.406

BEAST MODE

 

[thethe]

Ask Kris Medlen what he things

I didn't say it was good or even avearge. But you can put him out there once a week and make it work. He is learning the position just like he is learning how to hit. He is a very talented baseball player that just hasn't played enough baseball for a man his age.

 

[gilesfan]

While I won't definitively say Gattis>Ruf as both are highly risky.

But if you look at more than just the normal slash

Ruf 11.8 BB% 30.3 K% .188 iso .436 BABIP 19.5 LD%

Gattis 6.2 BB% 22.0 K% .259 iso .265 BABIP 15.9 LD%

So if you extrapolate those numbers you would expect Ruf to have a higher BABIP, but since Gattis puts more BIP his slash line is more along his expected lines while Ruf is way above his. If you normalize his BABIP to say .300 his slash line would be .218/.342/.406

BEAST MODE

Ruf's BABIP has never even been close to .300. His batting average is certainly going to come down, but he has legit power and an above average eye at the plate. He's going to have higher than normal BABIP bc he's the type of guy that swings and misses alot, but when he makes contact, he hits the ball hard.

 

[50PoundHead]

Gattis has played better than I thought he would. I still don't see him as a full-time player and I'll admit I could be dead wrong and there's no denying that he's been a lifesaver for the Braves this year given the injuries. If he works on his defense, I see him best suited to be a 350 AB guy catching a few times a week and playing some LF and (even less) 1B. Very good pinch hitter. If the NL adopted the DH, he'd be set.

 

[gilesfan]

Gattis has played better than I thought he would. I still don't see him as a full-time player and I'll admit I could be dead wrong and there's no denying that he's been a lifesaver for the Braves this year given the injuries. If he works on his defense, I see him best suited to be a 350 AB guy catching a few times a week and playing some LF and (even less) 1B. Very good pinch hitter. If the NL adopted the DH, he'd be set.

I see the same as you. Though, hopefully he gets a little more patient if he wants to start anywhere but catcher.

 

[nsacpi]

Gattis has played better than I thought he would. I still don't see him as a full-time player and I'll admit I could be dead wrong and there's no denying that he's been a lifesaver for the Braves this year given the injuries. If he works on his defense, I see him best suited to be a 350 AB guy catching a few times a week and playing some LF and (even less) 1B. Very good pinch hitter. If the NL adopted the DH, he'd be set.

That's my take on Gattis too. And btw I see Terdoslavich as being quite similar, except for not being able to play catcher. A bench with those two is a pretty good thing. Good pinch hitting and good cover for the positions where you need some production from your hitters. Add a couple more players who can play short and center, plus a little salt and pepper, stir, taste, and that's a pretty good bench.

 

[50PoundHead]

I see the same as you. Though, hopefully he gets a little more patient if he wants to start anywhere but catcher.

I think he's a real work in progress. He's not Francoeurish at the plate by any means, but I see him having the issue that his plate coverage is really good and he thinks he can hit pitches he really can't do much with. What has impressed me about Gattis is that he appears to understand hitting. One of the prettiest ABs I've seen all season (and I'll admit I haven't seen all that many) is his long AB against Burke of the Mets where Gattis hit a go-ahead single on a full count by going the other way with a pitch. At least he doesn't swing at balls six inches off the ground like our favorite San Francisco Giant.

Like all young guys, I worry that they'll get a book on Gattis which will force him to make adjustments and whether or not he can do that successfully will determine his big league ceiling. He doesn't have a lot of flaws. He doesn't stride and starts his swing relatively late, but he's unbelievably strong and his bat speed looks good. I'm surprised more teams don't try to bust him inside, but if you miss in there with him, the ball is out of the park.

PS--I agree that with Terdoslavich and Gattis, all you really need to have a good bench is a middle IF who can pick it and someone to back up in CF (someone like Bonifacio fills both those slots). The Braves should hire a hypnotist in the off-season and convince Terdoslavich that there is nothing to fear at 3B so he could at least do a passable job if asked to put a few innings in over there. Benches don't necessarily win divisions or pennants, but they help.

 

[gilesfan]

I think he's a real work in progress. He's not Francoeurish at the plate by any means, but I see him having the issue that his plate coverage is really good and he thinks he can hit pitches he really can't do much with. What has impressed me about Gattis is that he appears to understand hitting. One of the prettiest ABs I've seen all season (and I'll admit I haven't seen all that many) is his long AB against Burke of the Mets where Gattis hit a go-ahead single on a full count by going the other way with a pitch. At least he doesn't swing at balls six inches off the ground like our favorite San Francisco Giant.

Like all young guys, I worry that they'll get a book on Gattis which will force him to make adjustments and whether or not he can do that successfully will determine his big league ceiling. He doesn't have a lot of flaws. He doesn't stride and starts his swing relatively late, but he's unbelievably strong and his bat speed looks good. I'm surprised more teams don't try to bust him inside, but if you miss in there with him, the ball is out of the park.

I don't see why teams don't just throw junk at him. I haven't seen him be able to handle anything but offspeed hangers. I still think you can get him up in the zone with a fastball (Miller), but pitchers may be scared off by that one HR off Strasburg. But, hey if you sit fastball and you get one up in the zone, a lot of hitters will destroy that.

 

[zitothebrave]

Ruf's BABIP has never even been close to .300. His batting average is certainly going to come down, but he has legit power and an above average eye at the plate. He's going to have higher than normal BABIP bc he's the type of guy that swings and misses alot, but when he makes contact, he hits the ball hard.

Yay minor league stats!

I'll humor you though

Gattis also had an insanely high BABIP in the minors. He also hits the ball very hard when he makes contact.

Ruf is a slow right who hits around 20% line drives. That does not bode well for too high of a BABIP. From 2007 til now there are about 30 players with a 19.5-20% line drive rate, the high BABIP in that list is .339 which is Ichiro, the low is Plouffe at .262. BTW second lowest .264 adn second highest is Headley .334.

I would consider Ruf more like say Carlos Ruiz or Mike Napoli than Ichiro or Headley. Heck even Headley is lucky, but I think that high BABIP has more to do with the dimensions of Petco. Meanwhile CBP suppresses BABIP.