Trade Deadline: What are you willing to do?

sturg33 said:
They may not be that great at evaluating realistic possibilities... they told us last year's team would be more "fun to watch"... then they took their collective vow to never last year happen again... and here we are somehow much worse.
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Okay... I get it. They are all idiots. Read the first two sentences of my post instead of just reacting to the last one.

I don't think marginal improvement next year is ridiculous, nor unreasonable. I don't expect worst to first.
 
zbhargrove said:
You're right... They probably got to where they are by being compete idiots. Again. It doesn't kill the rebuild. In 3-5 years when the contracts are about up. The young talent is ready. No one seems to want to address that.
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You're getting very defensive about folks explaining that taking a team from 55 to 85 wins is a big challenge.

So far, the FO has looked like idiots with their public statements about the big league team... Do you deny this?
 
sturg33 said:
They may not be that great at evaluating realistic possibilities... they told us last year's team would be more "fun to watch"... then they took their collective vow to never last year happen again... and here we are somehow much worse.
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To be fair, last year's team won 67 games. This team will most certainly NOT win 67 games...so there's that.

And yes, a strong argument could be made that this FO is not adept at assessing MLB talent and roster construction. They thought HO could step right in and be an impact player 3B, when in reality he can't even play 3B. They passed on a guy like Freese for $3M and instead decided to give Garcia a shot at 3B. Aybar is a complete bust. Markakis never got his power back, and it looks like he never will. AJP was brought back after a season everyone knew was not going to be repeated. Inciarte is showing that he really isn't a MLB quality bat.

Those are some pretty damning moves when it comes to MLB roster construction.
 
Enscheff said:
The Braves are currently on pace to win 55 games. They are quite possibly the worst team of this young millennium. There is simply no way a team improves by 30-35 wins in a single offseason.

If all the following things happened, the Braves MIGHT be an 85 win team, and just miss the WC game:

1. Trade for Lucroy.
2. Sign Cespedes for LF.
3. Sign Desmond for 3B.
4. Acquire one more 3 WAR starting pitcher.
5. Promote Swanson and Albies.
6. All acquisitions and Freeman and Teheran at least repeat their 2016 performance.
7. Folty and Wisler take steps forward to be 2+ WAR pitchers.

If ALL those things happen, the Braves can be an 85 win team next year. Needless to say, all of those things will most certainly not happen.

This team isn't going from 55 wins this year to 85-90 wins next year, no matter how much you want it to happen. They can, and should, incrementally improve to 70+ wins with some modest FA acquisitions and promotions, and then challenge for 85+ wins in 2018.

The amount of talent required to obtain Lucroy for 14 months would completely undo all the rebuilding they just spent years doing. So unless Coppy somehow steals Lucroy, acquiring him would be a terrible, horrible, idea.
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If all that were to happen... Then they could easily approach 85 or more wins with a chance to win even more in 18-20... Then the young talent is ready.
 
Enscheff said:
To be fair, last year's team won 67 games. This team will most certainly NOT win 67 games...so there's that.

And yes, a strong argument could be made that this FO is not adept at assessing MLB talent and roster construction. They thought HO could step right in and be an impact player 3B, when in reality he can't even play 3B. They passed on a guy like Freese for $3M and instead decided to give Garcia a shot at 3B.

Those are some pretty damning MLB roster moves.
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I'm sure you're much better at evaluating talent than our FO
 
mfree80 said:
Okay... I get it. They are all idiots. Read the first two sentences of my post instead of just reacting to the last one.

I don't think marginal improvement next year is ridiculous, nor unreasonable. I don't expect worst to first.
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Of course they want to be better next year... I just hope they don't sell out to do it. You've started this tear down, you need to see it through. Not try to force a contender like the Marlins, Padres, or Diamondbacks did
 
sturg33 said:
You're getting very defensive about folks explaining that taking a team from 55 to 85 wins is a big challenge.

So far, the FO has looked like idiots with their public statements about the big league team... Do you deny this?
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It's called PR... The average fan will not accept reality. I'm not being defensive. I'm arguing for my side just like you are. I don't see it in absolutes like you. Sorry.
 
Enscheff said:
To be fair, last year's team won 67 games. This team will most certainly NOT win 67 games...so there's that.

And yes, a strong argument could be made that this FO is not adept at assessing MLB talent and roster construction. They thought HO could step right in and be an impact player 3B, when in reality he can't even play 3B. They passed on a guy like Freese for $3M and instead decided to give Garcia a shot at 3B. Aybar is a complete bust. Markakis never got his power back, and it looks like he never will. AJP was brought back after a season everyone knew was not going to be repeated. Inciarte is showing that he really isn't a MLB quality bat.

Those are some pretty damning moves when it comes to MLB roster construction.
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They didn't know what they had in Garcia. They needed to see if he had a future in a year that didn't matter anyways. What would we have gained by signing Freese? Really?
 
sturg33 said:
Of course they want to be better next year... I just hope they don't sell out to do it. You've started this tear down, you need to see it through. Not try to force a contender like the Marlins, Padres, or Diamondbacks did
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Pretty sure I just said I didn't expect to contend next year. MARGINAL IMPROVEMENT.
 
sturg33 said:
Trading for Lucroy would be selling out to go for it
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Actually depends what he costs. You're dealing with absolutes when you don't even know the price. We would be foolish to not even inquire. If it's going to rape the system, I don't want to do the deal. What's so hard to understand here?
 
zbhargrove said:
Actually depends what he costs. You're dealing with absolutes when you don't even know the price. We would be foolish to not even inquire. If it's going to rape the system, I don't want to do the deal. What's so hard to understand here?
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Sure... if we get him for nothing, then bring him on.

That's not going to happen. I wouldn't want to trade any of our top prospects for a guy who will be gone before we're close to being good
 
zbhargrove said:
They didn't know what they had in Garcia. They needed to see if he had a future in a year that didn't matter anyways. What would we have gained by signing Freese? Really?
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Everyone knew what they had in Garcia: a bad player. The Braves are quite possibly the only people that didn't know that, which is a problem.

What would they have gotten in Freese? Oh I don't know...a guy that plays an average 3b and is posting an .800 OPS maybe? A legitimate MLB caliber player perhaps? A trade chip that is more valuable than Beckham and Frenchy combined?

Do any of those things seem advantageous for a baseball organization?
 
zbhargrove said:
If all that were to happen... Then they could easily approach 85 or more wins with a chance to win even more in 18-20... Then the young talent is ready.
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But if they wait ONE more year, they have a better understanding of internal strengths/weaknesses, have another year to make low impact financial moves to help the team and THEN have back to back above average FA crops to draw from just as the young players really begin to blossom (theoretically).

If you trade for Lucroy you HAVE to extent him or it makes NO sense. Cespedes is good today but already past his physical prime and will be in his decline years when the young talent gets really ready. Desmond is the same as Cespedes with the added uncertainty of whether he is this years Desmond or last.

Trying to short cut the rebuild is a bad idea. Unfortunately the new park is next year and the FO may feel the need to make a splash going into the season. Problem is, if they do that the splash won't be a beautiful swan dive but a ball busting cannonball.
 
Hart on radio this morning

"I'm excited. I'm fresh. I look forward to seeing what is going to transpire with the job that John (Copella) and the entire staff have done. Countless hours and discussions have taken place, and we are in a very good place, no great place right now. We're on the verge of something exciting. Our youth and energy is unbelievable. We have so much talent, so much talent. We didn't have that before. We got a pool of talent, we have to evaluate. We have to make decesions soon, to determine who fits where and who does what. But we have that, and we can work off of that. But back to the question, we have a number, and I mean a number of guys that are drawing serious inquiries near this trade deadline. I expect some noise to be made from our end. Stay tuned, but it's been a wild ride and will continue to be. But we're on the verge of accomplishing great great things. We're close to competing in the interim, but also in the long-run."
 
Enscheff said:
Everyone knew what they had in Garcia: a bad player.

What would they have gotten in Freese? Oh I don't know...a guy that plays an average 3b and is posting an .800 OPS maybe? A legitimate MLB caliber player perhaps? A trade chip that is more valuable than Beckham?

Do any of those things seem advantageous for a baseball organization?
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He wasn't a bad player offensively when he got his look last year.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
Hart on radio this morning

"I'm excited. I'm fresh. I look forward to seeing what is going to transpire with the job that John (Copella) and the entire staff have done. Countless hours and discussions have taken place, and we are in a very good place, no great place right now. We're on the verge of something exciting. Our youth and energy is unbelievable. We have so much talent, so much talent. We didn't have that before. We got a pool of talent, we have to evaluate. We have to make decesions soon, to determine who fits where and who does what. But we have that, and we can work off of that. But back to the question, we have a number, and I mean a number of guys that are drawing serious inquiries near this trade deadline. I expect some noise to be made from our end. Stay tuned, but it's been a wild ride and will continue to be. But we're on the verge of accomplishing great great things. We're close to competing in the interim, but also in the long-run."
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Hart HAS to say that. GM speak. If they get a good deal for Teheran, Viz and/or Freeman then I will feel a lot better about their rationality.
 
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