Trump Indictment Watch
- Thread starter cajunrevenge
- Start date
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
https://apnews.com/article/trump-civil-fraud-verdict-engoron-244024861f0df886543c157c9fc5b3e4
Trump fined 364 million and barred from doing business in New York.
Trump fined 364 million and barred from doing business in New York.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
To appeal the ruling he has to put the money in an escrow account. Good luck coming up with 365 million. I believe he can can get a sort of bond payment where he only has to put up 17% up front. And he is apparently only barred from business in NY for 3 years not for life.
Dude, he is worth 2.5 billion. He can come up with that fairly easily. And he doesn't even need to have the full amount.
acesfull86
Well-known member
I dislike Trump, but this NY case was a stupid waste of everyone’s time.
It’s all so stupid. Leftist are throwing everything in the garbage because OMB
acesfull86
Well-known member
https://reason.com/2024/02/16/trump-ordered-to-pay-364-million-for-inflating-his-assets-in-civil-fraud-trial/
While Trump's fabrications were audacious, it's not clear who was actually harmed by them. "Trump never defaulted on the loans, and no one from Deutsche Bank, his principal lender, testified that they would have priced the loans any differently had they known of the alleged inaccuracies," Gershman wrote. "The bank came up with its own, much lower value estimates of Trump's properties using his financial statements as a starting point for its own credit-risk analysis."
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A big whopping who cares of a case
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
I didnt pay attention to every detail of the trial so here are just a few things from the rulings.
Several people from the accounting firms said the Trump Org represented to them that the information provided to them complied with Generally Accepted Accounting Practices(GAAP), which was a lie. They requested all records and the Trump Org lied to them that there were no appraisals. Hard to claim there was no attempt to deceive when they lie about having appraisals because they contradict what you want the value to be.
Jeffrey McConney, the Controller of Trump Org for 20 years was caught lying that nearly all the disclaimer and valuation discourse language that appeared in the SFCs was written by Mazars. When confronted with his own notes he admitted he was wrong.
McConney admitted he knew Trump had no right to withdraw money from his interest in Vornado Partnership but listed the interest as if it was liquid cash Trump had access to.
McConney admitted that he knew the SFCs had to be GAAP compliant.
McConney testified that he knowingly valued rent regulated apartments using an anticipated selling price that the apartment were not rent restricted and had already been renovated.
McConney testified that he ignored the appraisals the Trump Org commissioned for Seven Springs that valued it between 5.5 million and 21 million and listed it as worth 161 million citing Eric Trump as the source.
McConney testified that that for every SFC Donald Trump valued Maralago as if it was a private residence and not a social club
McConney denied he that Weaselberg ever asked him to commit fraud but when confronted with his testimony in Weaselbergs criminal case that he did indeed ask him to commit tax fraud and that he did so knowing it was illegal but believed he would be fired if he didnt do it.
Weaselberg admitted he knew he was obligated to provide Mazars with anything that contradicted their valuation claims. Admitted he knew Mazars wouldnt have issued the SFCs for them if they didnt agree that their representations complied with GAAP. Admitted they failed to provide the appraisals that were asked for.
Weaelberg admitted to having final approval over the 40 Wall Street budgets and was aware that in 2011 it had negative cash flow. He admitted to directing a Trump Org employee to fraudulently make it look like it had a positive cash flow of 26 million without telling that employee it would be used for the SFC.
Trump Jr admitted receiving an inquiry from Forbes suggesting the Trump tower apartment was actually 10,000 square feet and not 30,000 square feet 4 days before affirming in a Mangement Represenation Letter which specifically said "We have no knowledge of any allegations of fraud, or suspected fraud, affecting us that could have a material effect on the personal financial statement."
Eric Trump testified that he had nothing to do with the Statements of Financial Condition regarding Seven springs despite Jeff McConney testifying that he used Eric Trump as the source for the inflated valuation for the property.
Eric Trump denied even knowing that he Dad was even compiling SFCs until confronted with tons of documentary evidence showing he did as early as 2013, to which he then agreed that he was aware "It appears that way, yes".
Eric Trump admitted he was aware of not only the 5.5 to 21 million appraisal of Seven Springs but also another appraisal by a different firm for 14 million when telling McConney to value the property at 161 million. Eric Trump tried to deny he was involved in the appraisals until shown several documentary evidence showing he was.
Eric Trump defended listing Maralago as a private residence and Donald Trump admitted they purposely listed it as a private residence and not a social club. Trumps valuation of Maralago would be 400% higher than the most any residence has ever sold for in the US.
When questioned about the Aberdeen property which was valued as if it could put 2500 residence there despite only having permission to put 500 homes there Trump replied "“I don’t know, but it could very well be. It’s sort of like a painting. You could do pretty much what you want to do. The land is there. You could do what you want to do. So you could do either one of them, actually.”. They then showed a 2014 Trump Org statement to UK regulators saying they had no plans to develop further. Trump not only valued the property as if he had permission to build 2500 homes but as if the homes had already been built.
Trump was confronted with a Forbes article and audio recordings of him stating 40 Wall Street was 72 stories tall when it was actually 63 stories, resulting in an overvaluation of 50 million. He also falsely stated that it had a operating income of 64 million in 2015 when it actually had a negative income of 8.7 million.
The Judge notes "Overall, Donald Trump rarely responded to the questions asked, and he frequently interjected long, irrelevant speeches on issues far beyond the scope of the trial. His refusal to answer the questions directly, or in some cases, at all, severely compromised his credibility. "
Donna Kidder - a senior accountant testified she was instructed by Weaselberg to assume certain things when preparing the budget projections such as presupposing any vacant units would be fully leased by the end of the year and omitting management fees. McConney tasked her with preparing an annual report on Trumps licensing deals and was directed to assume all revenue from the deals would be paid out in 1 year regardless of the pace of the deal.
Patrick Birney - held various positions and took over for McConney. Weaselberg instructed him to omit mangement fees from net operating expenses and to apply a 2.67 cap rate despite Birney objecting that he couldnt support such a low cap rate.
Birney confirmed the only reason the square footage of Trump tower was corrected was the Forbes article and that Weaselberg directed him to massively inflate the value per square foot of the building to maintain the inflated value after correcting the square footage.
Birney testified that Weaselberg personally told him Trump required his net worth on each subsequent SFC to increase.
In 2020 the Trump Org filed an appeal of the 26 million tax appraisal value primarily stating it should be lower because it is a commercial property and not a residence. Completely contradictory of their valuations in SFCs as a residence.
Michael Cohen testified that he was tasked to increase the valuations of his properties to reach a number Trump arbitrarily selected ahead of time. The Judge specifically states that Cohen was not a key witness and that not much weight was given to his testimony given his past.
Michiel McCarthy - CEO of Invesment bank MM Dillion and company. He testified that based on his calculations reviewing the evidence of an accurate reporting of Trumps net worth he saved 72.9 million on the loan for Doral, 53.4 million for the DC post office building, 17.4 million for the Chicago loan, and 24.2 million from the 40 Wall Street loan. He also testified this was a conservative estimate because he used a base 10% interest rate rather than the interest rates of the time which were rising and applied only simple interest and not compound interest.
Regarding Trump tower, Trump admitted in an 1994 interview that the square footage was 10,996 square feet. Copies of this interview were in Weaselbergs email inbox multiple times and in a physical filing cabinet directly outside his office. In 2012 Weaselberg asked Trump International Realty employee Kevin Sneddon to value Trumps apartment. Sneddon asked to inspect the apartment or access to the floorplan to which he was denied and told it was 30,000 square feet which he used to make his valuation.
Despite all the intentional misleading about the Judges valuations of Maralago he only uses Trumps own admission that he valued the property as a residence and not commercial despite his signed agreement to only use it as a social club as evidence of deceptive valuation. Whatever you think Maralago is worth it is unquestionably far less as a commercial property than residential. So there is nothing in this judgement that says Maralago is worth 18 million.
Several people from the accounting firms said the Trump Org represented to them that the information provided to them complied with Generally Accepted Accounting Practices(GAAP), which was a lie. They requested all records and the Trump Org lied to them that there were no appraisals. Hard to claim there was no attempt to deceive when they lie about having appraisals because they contradict what you want the value to be.
Jeffrey McConney, the Controller of Trump Org for 20 years was caught lying that nearly all the disclaimer and valuation discourse language that appeared in the SFCs was written by Mazars. When confronted with his own notes he admitted he was wrong.
McConney admitted he knew Trump had no right to withdraw money from his interest in Vornado Partnership but listed the interest as if it was liquid cash Trump had access to.
McConney admitted that he knew the SFCs had to be GAAP compliant.
McConney testified that he knowingly valued rent regulated apartments using an anticipated selling price that the apartment were not rent restricted and had already been renovated.
McConney testified that he ignored the appraisals the Trump Org commissioned for Seven Springs that valued it between 5.5 million and 21 million and listed it as worth 161 million citing Eric Trump as the source.
McConney testified that that for every SFC Donald Trump valued Maralago as if it was a private residence and not a social club
McConney denied he that Weaselberg ever asked him to commit fraud but when confronted with his testimony in Weaselbergs criminal case that he did indeed ask him to commit tax fraud and that he did so knowing it was illegal but believed he would be fired if he didnt do it.
Weaselberg admitted he knew he was obligated to provide Mazars with anything that contradicted their valuation claims. Admitted he knew Mazars wouldnt have issued the SFCs for them if they didnt agree that their representations complied with GAAP. Admitted they failed to provide the appraisals that were asked for.
Weaelberg admitted to having final approval over the 40 Wall Street budgets and was aware that in 2011 it had negative cash flow. He admitted to directing a Trump Org employee to fraudulently make it look like it had a positive cash flow of 26 million without telling that employee it would be used for the SFC.
Trump Jr admitted receiving an inquiry from Forbes suggesting the Trump tower apartment was actually 10,000 square feet and not 30,000 square feet 4 days before affirming in a Mangement Represenation Letter which specifically said "We have no knowledge of any allegations of fraud, or suspected fraud, affecting us that could have a material effect on the personal financial statement."
Eric Trump testified that he had nothing to do with the Statements of Financial Condition regarding Seven springs despite Jeff McConney testifying that he used Eric Trump as the source for the inflated valuation for the property.
Eric Trump denied even knowing that he Dad was even compiling SFCs until confronted with tons of documentary evidence showing he did as early as 2013, to which he then agreed that he was aware "It appears that way, yes".
Eric Trump admitted he was aware of not only the 5.5 to 21 million appraisal of Seven Springs but also another appraisal by a different firm for 14 million when telling McConney to value the property at 161 million. Eric Trump tried to deny he was involved in the appraisals until shown several documentary evidence showing he was.
Eric Trump defended listing Maralago as a private residence and Donald Trump admitted they purposely listed it as a private residence and not a social club. Trumps valuation of Maralago would be 400% higher than the most any residence has ever sold for in the US.
When questioned about the Aberdeen property which was valued as if it could put 2500 residence there despite only having permission to put 500 homes there Trump replied "“I don’t know, but it could very well be. It’s sort of like a painting. You could do pretty much what you want to do. The land is there. You could do what you want to do. So you could do either one of them, actually.”. They then showed a 2014 Trump Org statement to UK regulators saying they had no plans to develop further. Trump not only valued the property as if he had permission to build 2500 homes but as if the homes had already been built.
Trump was confronted with a Forbes article and audio recordings of him stating 40 Wall Street was 72 stories tall when it was actually 63 stories, resulting in an overvaluation of 50 million. He also falsely stated that it had a operating income of 64 million in 2015 when it actually had a negative income of 8.7 million.
The Judge notes "Overall, Donald Trump rarely responded to the questions asked, and he frequently interjected long, irrelevant speeches on issues far beyond the scope of the trial. His refusal to answer the questions directly, or in some cases, at all, severely compromised his credibility. "
Donna Kidder - a senior accountant testified she was instructed by Weaselberg to assume certain things when preparing the budget projections such as presupposing any vacant units would be fully leased by the end of the year and omitting management fees. McConney tasked her with preparing an annual report on Trumps licensing deals and was directed to assume all revenue from the deals would be paid out in 1 year regardless of the pace of the deal.
Patrick Birney - held various positions and took over for McConney. Weaselberg instructed him to omit mangement fees from net operating expenses and to apply a 2.67 cap rate despite Birney objecting that he couldnt support such a low cap rate.
Birney confirmed the only reason the square footage of Trump tower was corrected was the Forbes article and that Weaselberg directed him to massively inflate the value per square foot of the building to maintain the inflated value after correcting the square footage.
Birney testified that Weaselberg personally told him Trump required his net worth on each subsequent SFC to increase.
In 2020 the Trump Org filed an appeal of the 26 million tax appraisal value primarily stating it should be lower because it is a commercial property and not a residence. Completely contradictory of their valuations in SFCs as a residence.
Michael Cohen testified that he was tasked to increase the valuations of his properties to reach a number Trump arbitrarily selected ahead of time. The Judge specifically states that Cohen was not a key witness and that not much weight was given to his testimony given his past.
Michiel McCarthy - CEO of Invesment bank MM Dillion and company. He testified that based on his calculations reviewing the evidence of an accurate reporting of Trumps net worth he saved 72.9 million on the loan for Doral, 53.4 million for the DC post office building, 17.4 million for the Chicago loan, and 24.2 million from the 40 Wall Street loan. He also testified this was a conservative estimate because he used a base 10% interest rate rather than the interest rates of the time which were rising and applied only simple interest and not compound interest.
Regarding Trump tower, Trump admitted in an 1994 interview that the square footage was 10,996 square feet. Copies of this interview were in Weaselbergs email inbox multiple times and in a physical filing cabinet directly outside his office. In 2012 Weaselberg asked Trump International Realty employee Kevin Sneddon to value Trumps apartment. Sneddon asked to inspect the apartment or access to the floorplan to which he was denied and told it was 30,000 square feet which he used to make his valuation.
Despite all the intentional misleading about the Judges valuations of Maralago he only uses Trumps own admission that he valued the property as a residence and not commercial despite his signed agreement to only use it as a social club as evidence of deceptive valuation. Whatever you think Maralago is worth it is unquestionably far less as a commercial property than residential. So there is nothing in this judgement that says Maralago is worth 18 million.
From what I'm seeing the rulings seem to be based on conjecture and with him believing he gets to dictate what the true value is. An example is that the $500 million evaluation Trump has on Mar-a-Lago is correct. That's been proven. He also has a right to get the tax evaluation down if he can.
Most of these so-called lies can be explained with errors and that idiot judge not completely understanding the situation and drawing the wrong conclusion. This case should have been left to the courts that deal with commercial property and not by a judge that seems not to understand anything. If it went to the commercial courts this case would have been dismissed.
This insane judgment won't hold up in appeals.
Most of these so-called lies can be explained with errors and that idiot judge not completely understanding the situation and drawing the wrong conclusion. This case should have been left to the courts that deal with commercial property and not by a judge that seems not to understand anything. If it went to the commercial courts this case would have been dismissed.
This insane judgment won't hold up in appeals.
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57Brave
Well-known member
in order for trump to appeal the WHOPPING TOTAL OF $450 MILLION he now owes, he has to post 120% of it.
He's got plenty of money. He'll also get most or all of this money back in time.
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cajunrevenge
Well-known member
All your complaints are because you didn't actually read the ruling and are relying on propaganda. For example, nowhere does it say Trump value Maralago at x but I rule it's worth y. Trump admitted to valueing it as a residence when it can only be used as commercial per agreement he signed. There's no grey area there. The were numerous employees who testified they were instructed to do things like only expenses to show a property has a positive cash flow. Trump's apartment magically tripled in value per square foot after they had to admit it was 1/3rd the size they claimed. Just a long list of fraud that shows these were t mistakes. They were done on purpose.
The judge did say it was worth between 18m and 27m.
Where did employees testify "do things like only show expenses to show a property has a positive cash flow"? I'm betting this is being twisted for a narrative.
Yep, an error that they did change after Forbes pointed it out. Businesses can make errors. They had it stated it right at first, got off, then went back to its real value without government coercion.
Where did employees testify "do things like only show expenses to show a property has a positive cash flow"? I'm betting this is being twisted for a narrative.
Yep, an error that they did change after Forbes pointed it out. Businesses can make errors. They had it stated it right at first, got off, then went back to its real value without government coercion.
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Runnin
Well-known member
Judge Engoron is not a "leftist". He, like most all judges, are pro-law conservatives.
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cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Who is the victim for going 55 in a 45?