Trump vs Harris debate

nsacpi said:
I prefer thethe's take here. Immigration on balance is a hugely positive thang. It has given a new lease on life to countless towns around this country that have been suffering decline for decades. It is actually the best thang that has happened to Springfield in a long time. There are some adjustment pains and the federal government and state government should help out. But this fuss is reminiscent of other periods of xenophobia. When we took a lot of Vietnamese immigrants they were accused of eating cats and dogs. Muslim immigrants were accused of dancing on the rooftops after 9/11. There is a sad history of this kind of nonsense in this country. Hopefully, no one does anything crazy and no one gets hurt from all the hatred and dehumanization of people who are a little bit different.
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Sure but let me ask you. What’s the optimal amount of immigration? Is it 1m per year? 10m? 100m? It’s fine to say immigrants provide a net benefit to society and its culture (I agree). But that’s only true to an extent.

A good rule of thumb for me is immigration is beneficial when the immigrant stands to benefit from fully assimilating to the existing culture (language, norms, abide by laws, etc). 20k Haitians in a town of 60k violates that balance.
 
chop2chip said:
Sure but let me ask you. What’s the optimal amount of immigration? Is it 1m per year? 10m? 100m? It’s fine to say immigrants provide a net benefit to society and its culture (I agree). But that’s only true to an extent.

A good rule of thumb for me is immigration is beneficial when the immigrant stands to benefit from fully assimilating to the existing culture (language, norms, abide by laws, etc). 20k Haitians in a town of 60k violates that balance.
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I'll try to answer. I don't think there is a magical number but rather a range that is reasonable. But I'll note that you asked me a question about what the national number should be but go on to make a point about 20K being too much for a town of 60K. Immigration always tends to be "lumpy" in that for various reasons people tend to cluster. So we had lots of Vietnamese refugees in Louisiana in the 1980s, including a disproportionate number in some rather small towns. After an adjustment period that has turned out pretty well for the refugees and those small towns. I do think as a matter of policy state and federal governments should support towns and school districts experiencing those kinds of surges.

As for the optimal number, I think we need to look at it both from an economic perspective and a social perspective. If you look at labor force growth, the U.S. labor force grew at 1.6% per year from 1950 to 2000. Since 2000, it has grown much less in spite of high immigration rates, about 1.0% per year in the naughts and 0.5% per year in the 2010s. I'm not saying one is better than the other. Simply that we can live with both. The labor force is just under 170 million these days. If we want to juice it by 1% through immigration that's 1.7 million per year (and higher when you consider working age people will sometimes have family members who are not working age). I'm just laying out some numbers to inform the discussion. I think an overall immigration target of 2-3 million per year is something that makes sense. I wouldn't argue against something a bit smaller, but purely from an economic perspective I think that is a number that would work well for the economy.

The other side is assimilation. In recent decades we've seen surges of widely different groups. Cubans, Vietnamese, Hmong, Mexicans, Central Americans, Dominicans, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Somalis, Ethiopians, Haitians, Venezuelans. Do any of these groups stand out as having trouble assimilating. I don't think so. Sometimes their English is not the best. But they find jobs. And here is the kicker. Their children do exceptionally well. I don't think any analysis of the pros and cons of immigration is complete without considering how well children of immigrants do in this country and the enormous contributions they make. This includes children of poorly educated immigrants who never fully master the language. I've interacted with people from many of these immigrant communities. I've had students whose parents came here as immigrants. As dirt poor immigrants and refugees. They are ballers, no matter where their parents came from or their parents' socioeconomic status. That's just anecdotes from people I've interacted with. But there are also hard comprehensive data that confirm those anecdotes.
 
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I hope Trump listens to Loomer and keeps running on this nonsense.

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chop2chip said:
They aren’t stalking rural Ohio. They are scouring social media to find any anecdotal evidence they can find so they can send it to their favorite alternative media podcaster so they can amplify it without taking a second to think whether or not it’s relevant.

I’d actually admire if these people were out doing citizen journalism.
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Perhaps I gave them too much credit when they said they had boots on the ground. Regardless, there is not a wave of animals being stolen and eaten by immigrants. I couldn’t get over the suggestion that they’ve found so much in less than a week, when the photo in that very tweet is someone *elsewhere in Ohio* cooking a whole chicken.
 
Hilarious. Wonder if he paid for that video of people cooking whole chicken.

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Harris gave a really amazing performance at the debate. She was presidential and prepared and made great in the moment decisions about how and when to bait The Felon.

Very impressive for the low IQ DEI hire. Btw, is that still a talking point???
 
Runnin said:
Harris gave a really amazing performance at the debate. She was presidential and prepared and made great in the moment decisions about how and when to bait The Felon.

Very impressive for the low IQ DEI hire. Btw, is that still a talking point???
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I hope so.
 
Another school in Springfield is dealing with threats this week, with a new investigation underway.

Wittenberg University announced the cancelation of all events and activities Sunday, Sept. 15, after an email “threatened a potential shooting,” campus police said in a statement. The threats reportedly targeted Haitians.

This comes as multiple hospitals received bomb threats in the area, leading to a lockdown situation Saturday.

https://fox8.com/news/university-in...ts-after-email-threatened-potential-shooting/
 
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I don't understand why people would send in bomb threats because they think Haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs. Like what's the goal there. You acknowledge they are eating cats and dogs or we will blow up a hospital or shoot up a school.......
 
thethe said:
[tw]1834296905603461335[/tw]

Nobody would be surprised if this happened right?
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Well I did another check in with the source of this bombshell report

"Black Insurrectionist--- I FOLLOW BACK TRUE PATRIOTS" has not yet delivered the goods

Is this one of those classic thethe "I am a high iq genius" or the much more common "I said some complete nonsense as fact, it wasn't and we will pretend it never happened"
 
chop2chip said:
Sure but let me ask you. What’s the optimal amount of immigration? Is it 1m per year? 10m? 100m? It’s fine to say immigrants provide a net benefit to society and its culture (I agree). But that’s only true to an extent.

A good rule of thumb for me is immigration is beneficial when the immigrant stands to benefit from fully assimilating to the existing culture (language, norms, abide by laws, etc). 20k Haitians in a town of 60k violates that balance.
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And I’d add the following to your question: what’s the good faith argument against immigration that won’t get one labeled a racist bigot?

Because I agree with you that while immigration is generally good for the country, there can be a tipping point. Once we’ve gone well past that point, is it acceptable to say “look, we’re way past the optimum here,” because it seems like those who like to label “anti-immigration” folks as racists will still throw you in that pile if that’s your reason.
 
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