Ukraine

Isn't that tactic of avoidance of the very nature of Just War Theory? I guess I'm not sure what your actual difference with it is.

And that's not a "pretty absolute position" - it is an absolute position. :-)
 
Could Putin dismember NATO without firing a shot? Link I'm not sure I agree with streiff on all points - but this is an intriguing scenario. I think I'll be paying attention to Estonia.
 
How can it be a victory? Russia invaded and annexed a part of a country that wasn't there's. West stood by. So if Russia doesn't take anymore land it's a Win for Obama? There's no concrete proof that Russia is going to take anymore land. That's a helluva spin

Let's say I move in next to your house and build a fence on your land. I tell you that all your land in my fence is now my land( which is yours and I stole from you). I tell you that I don't want anymore of your land. You tell me that if I steal anymore of your yard that you're going to call the cops. I don't steal anymore of your land. And you would consider that a win for you?
 
I think avoiding World War 3 is a victory for everyone. Unfortunately Crimea is gone but it is 90% ethnic Russian. And to your example if I had nuclear weapons you wouldn't invade my territory.

What's most important is that we avoid World War 3. Simply because we're not the only country anymore with nukes.
 
No country is ever going to use nukes. Why would they ? They would die. No one is that stupid.

If you were China why wouldn't you send some soliders and take over the islands in the pacific that all countries claim? You know Obama isn't going to do anything. That's the big result from not pushing Putin back. I'd be far more worried about the Asian-Pacific then Eastern Europe.

I don't believe for a second that A man with Putins ego would risk starting WW3. He knows he'd lose. He'd lose relativly quickly I imagine.
 
I spoke with a gentleman whom was in Athens at the hotel I'm in. He's in Athens training from DC and he's going to be stationed in Kiev at the US embassy. Our conversation completely made me understand the magnitude. He immigrated with parents from Georgia to USA. Has a huge vantage of the situation in what he explained to me.
 
Vladimir-putin-george-w-bush-new-paintings-story-top.jpg
 
Jews being ordered to register and list their property today in Donetsk.

But no -- Crimea isn't our problem ... :roll:
 
Was going to post a link to NYT columnist David Brooks opining yesterday Obama had a "manhood problem" concerning MidEast and Ukraine -- but then thought what for?

Hey, both sides are the same -- right?
Cause we remember when Meet the Press allowed someone to challenge Reagans manhood when the Marine Barracks was bombed and Reagans courage was displayed in WWII by playing pretend in Calif while Jimmy Carter (the wuss) was i a submarine -- remember?

Both sides do it --- right?
 
I don't have a lot of time for David Brooks (but I don't have a lot of time for Rachel Maddow either).

What I will say about the Ukraine (and you can scroll back to my comment shortly into this fracas) is that I wonder now if the demonstrators should have accepted the negotiated truce instead of marshaling forward. I can see both sides of why they should have or shouldn't have, but if you are the weaker party in a stand-off (given Russia's support for the then-sitting government), wouldn't some kind of negotiated agreement have been the way to go? Maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but chaos usually doesn't bother the person who knows where they are going and Putin has always known his preferred destination.
 
Maddow / Brooks are columnists with a political ax to grind. Pretty sure both would agree with that assessment.
Having said that ...

MTP has traditionally been a moderator driven program where ridiculous bordering on juvenile points like the one Brooks made would not be tolerated. And if by chance they would slip through the voice would be held to task and in all likelihood never asked back.
 
Brooks' entire schtick is that he's a decent writer and thinker who constantly markets himself as "not as crazy" as other conservatives. I still have yet to hear, see, or read a plausible alternative scenario suggested by the necocon community (of which I would count Brooks as a member).

But don't get me wrong. Putin is a total tyrant, but if Europe isn't going to do anything about him it puts us in a real bind.
 
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