Update on catcher WAR on Fangraphs

[Oklahomabrave]

It looks like they’ve included framing in overall value. Of note, it makes Brian McCann look like a HOFer with about 55 career WAR including an 8.9 season.

 

[sturg33]

Flowers at 7 in 2017

 

[Carp]

Mac with 8.9 WAR in only 145 games...

 

[msstate7]

Last season, Suzuki 1.0 (105 games) and flowers 2.5 (82 games)

 

[smootness]

It also makes Flowers slightly less valuable than Realmuto from 2016-2018 in 139 fewer games.

 

[thewupk]

It also makes Flowers slightly less valuable than Realmuto from 2016-2018 in 139 fewer games.

Indeed.

Fangraphs depth charts has the Phillies catching WAR at 4.3 for 2019 and the Braves with 3.6. And that is with them including zips projections with doesn't account for this like Steamer does.

Maybe there was a reason the Braves didn't up their offer for JTR

 

[thewupk]

Mac with 8.9 WAR in only 145 games...

He was a beast early in his career.

This also has Mac with the most WAR of any catcher since him came into the league.

 

[clvclv]

He was a beast early in his career.

This also has Mac with the most WAR of any catcher since him came into the league.

Him = BAAAD MAN.

 

[Slippyjms]

Interesting note. 3 of the pitchers with the highest increase in WAR from this are Huddy JJ and Hanson

 

[smootness]

Indeed.

Fangraphs depth charts has the Phillies catching WAR at 4.3 for 2019 and the Braves with 3.6. And that is with them including zips projections with doesn't account for this like Steamer does.

Maybe there was a reason the Braves didn't up their offer for JTR

That was my argument all along...that if you trust the framing value at all, and I'm assuming the Braves do, it didn't make sense to pay a ton for JTR.

 

[thewupk]

Interesting note. 3 of the pitchers with the highest increase in WAR from this are Huddy JJ and Hanson

Mac and Ross helped with that.

 

[thewupk]

That was my argument all along...that if you trust the framing value at all, and I'm assuming the Braves do, it didn't make sense to pay a ton for JTR.

Agreed. A healthy Flowers is really good.

 

[nsacpi]

Interesting note. 3 of the pitchers with the highest increase in WAR from this are Huddy JJ and Hanson

Wouldn't that be double counting. You want to give the credit for wins to either the catcher or the pitcher. As a matter of fact, I would think that a pitcher's WAR needs to be adjusted down if he is working with a really good framer.

 

[Southcack77]

That was my argument all along...that if you trust the framing value at all, and I'm assuming the Braves do, it didn't make sense to pay a ton for JTR.

I just didn't see the point of spending big on Realmuto if that is all you were going to do.

If you'd added ... Haniger and Kimbrell or something then maybe. But to me Realmuto seemed a little too incremental on his own to justify a big cost.

 

[thethe]

Agreed. A healthy Flowers is really good.

It is close to spring time

 

[salmagundy]

It is close to spring time

Today is 1st day of spring!!!

 

[nsacpi]

in the spring there will be growth

 

[4maddux_cy's]

Wouldn't that be double counting. You want to give the credit for wins to either the catcher or the pitcher. As a matter of fact, I would think that a pitcher's WAR needs to be adjusted down if he is working with a really good framer.

I’m not sure I agree with that. I mean, would you say Maddux would be less valuable because of his catcher? I’m using an extreme but still.

 

[msstate7]

I’m not sure I agree with that. I mean, would you say Maddux would be less valuable because of his catcher? I’m using an extreme but still.

Would his numbers be the same throwing to the best framer vs the worst framer?

 

[Enscheff]

Wouldn't that be double counting. You want to give the credit for wins to either the catcher or the pitcher. As a matter of fact, I would think that a pitcher's WAR needs to be adjusted down if he is working with a really good framer.

You are correct. They may be accounting for this, but I haven’t looked into it enough to confirm. I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt though.