Video of Kimbrel
- Thread starter tululush
- Start date
Not every closer can go 2 innings.
Kimbrel has not proven he can do that. I don't care about a few mop up games he did that in. Yeah there's the one NLDS 2010 game, but everyone here talks about sample size and that isn't enough to convince me he could do it.
It would have been a stupid risk to start Kimbrel in the 8th, when Carpenter has been effective all year. The people that are complaining he sucked in Game 2, I bring back sample size again. He was pretty rock solid reliable all year, so going with Carpenter in 8th for 2/3 or maybe a whole IDK, and Kimbrel in the 9th would be the right play that every manager in the league would have done.
This monday morning quarterbacking of "why leave your best reliever in the bullpen" is as lame as the "pitched 1 time in 4 games" argument.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Your statement at the end once again makes it sound like people are questioning this move after the fact. That might be true for a few, but plenty were yelling for Kimbrel, especially after the hit. I think you go with Carpenter with a three-run lead. You don't with no margin for error.
Just because they were yelling for the move before or after the Puig hit, doesn't make you guys any more of a genius.
I've watched Kimbrel for as long as you all have, and I don't see him right now being a 2 inning guy. He didn't do it all year, why ask him to do it now (and from the looks of it, every time in the playoffs from here on out). If a healthy Jordan Walden gives up the home run, do we still complain about the move since Walden is a more polished and experienced pitcher than Carpenter?
No idea why people think I'm knocking Kimbrel. Taking emotion or bias out of the equation, my reasons for why Rivera is a more capable 2 inning pitcher than Kimbrel are very valid from the eyes of anybody that actually pays attention to baseball. Mechanics, pitching smarts, and experience are why Rivera is a 2 inning pitcher.
Most of Kimbrel's walks are from him trying to overthrow. That's never been an issue with Rivera. He's walked guys, but not because of overthrow but because he misses his spots and has his off days. I don't care how earth shattering Kimbrel's K/9 or WHIP is. I can watch both of them pitch and see which guy gasses out there and which guy doesn't.
Mariano has made a career out of being a pitch to contact first guy that happens to be able to strike out guys. The older he got and less velocity he had, the more he relied on just getting guys out quicker and quicker. Kimbrel has yet to figure that out from a closer's perspective how to get a quick save. We've become accustomed to seeing him just throw it past guys and striking out 2/3 batters per outing that we've never actually seen him regularly just get guys out quickly. When he does struggle, he becomes somewhat hittable and tries to overthrow even more to compensate.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
It might not make any of us 'more of a genius,' but it shows we are not what you guys claim as an attempt to discredit our opinions on the matter.
If that game was not the time for Kimbrel to pitch two innings, there will never be one. And don't get me started on Walden. He wasn't healthy and Fredi thought HE could handle two innings.
That is a completely different issue, and you know it. That's the thing about all of this, I know YOU know this was a bad move. Makes discussing it with you a little frustrating.
It wasn't a bad move. Was it the best move? That's debatable. But it wasn't a bad move. A bad move would be using Ayala (who surprisingly was pretty good that series) or Hale (who's never pitched than important of an inning in his life). Carpenter for all-intensive purposes was our set up guy the last month and a half and did a fine job in that role. Before that he was pretty much our 7th inning guy.
Fredi was playing the percentages (playing it safe like it was regular season as some of you may say). Unfortunately for the Braves it never works out for us. Putting Kershaw on 3 Days rest when he's never done it before after throwing 120 pitches is something that generally would bite the Braves in the butt if we did it. For LA it worked out.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Those would be awful moves.
And that move only worked out because Fredi walked Ree--I mean, didn't use Kimbrel. If not for that, we likely go to game five with Kershaw not being available.
And the reality is, some of you have had it out for Fredi for years. Fredi may never be half the manager Bobby was, as most guys who manage never will be. But as I said before in the Gonzalez rant thread...
We won 96 games with 2 of our highest paid hitters having two of the worst and historically terrible seasons in league history. We lost our rotation anchor/stopper to the Mets. We lost two of our best bullpen arms the last 4 years early. We only had 2 months of Justin Upton, we missed Heyward for 2 months. We missed McCann the first month, relied on a former janitor to be a key hitter. We had no real leadoff hitter until Heyward (even then it's debatable he's actually a leadoff hitter). A lot of you keep saying they won 96 games in spite of Fredi the Terrible. Don't agree. If Fredi is that bad, the clubhouse would've self-destructed with all the egos months and months ago, we probably collapse like 2011.
I'll take Fredi's style of managing simlar to Bobby of being really good in the regular season and take our chances when we get to the postseason. We've still been getting screwed in the playoffs whether it be self-inflicted wounds, or just umpires screwing us.
Fredi is still on the up and up. Collapse in 11, Wild Card last year, Division this year. Could be NLCS next year or World Series, IDK.
I do think Fredi has learned a lot this year (not putting Simmons leadoff anymore. You could read in his AJC interview he's saying Simmons is becoming a middle of the order guy), bullpen management, pitch counts, etc. I think next year because of this experience, he'll test Kimbrel for more +1 inning saves (notice I didn't say 2 innings, because I think Fred will try 1.1 1.2 first.
I've been patient with Fredi, he hasn't made the best moves all the time but I can't think of many guys that do.
We won 96 games with 2 of our highest paid hitters having two of the worst and historically terrible seasons in league history. We lost our rotation anchor/stopper to the Mets. We lost two of our best bullpen arms the last 4 years early. We only had 2 months of Justin Upton, we missed Heyward for 2 months. We missed McCann the first month, relied on a former janitor to be a key hitter. We had no real leadoff hitter until Heyward (even then it's debatable he's actually a leadoff hitter). A lot of you keep saying they won 96 games in spite of Fredi the Terrible. Don't agree. If Fredi is that bad, the clubhouse would've self-destructed with all the egos months and months ago, we probably collapse like 2011.
I'll take Fredi's style of managing simlar to Bobby of being really good in the regular season and take our chances when we get to the postseason. We've still been getting screwed in the playoffs whether it be self-inflicted wounds, or just umpires screwing us.
Fredi is still on the up and up. Collapse in 11, Wild Card last year, Division this year. Could be NLCS next year or World Series, IDK.
I do think Fredi has learned a lot this year (not putting Simmons leadoff anymore. You could read in his AJC interview he's saying Simmons is becoming a middle of the order guy), bullpen management, pitch counts, etc. I think next year because of this experience, he'll test Kimbrel for more +1 inning saves (notice I didn't say 2 innings, because I think Fred will try 1.1 1.2 first.
I've been patient with Fredi, he hasn't made the best moves all the time but I can't think of many guys that do.
Sometimes it's just baseball.
I mean Fredi put Ayala in with runners on in game 2 and we managed to get out of that jam. That has been a situation Ayala has sucked in most of the year (inheriting runners as opposed to starting innings) and we somehow got out of it.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Agreed. And sometimes baseball sucks giant fat Ray King balls.
My problem with Fredi was how he acted like all of the games were June or July games. He did not manage the playoffs with any sense or urgency. Sometimes you can't worry about tomorrow because when you lose your done. He did not manage that way at all.
Runnin
Well-known member
Fredi and Roger did an amazing job handling the bullpen this year, which was arguably the strength of the team and why we won so many games. They got us there and they deserve the right to make that call. It didn't work out. It sucks but it's not like we got beat by the Pirates.
It's pretty clear to me that the better team advanced.
It's pretty clear to me that the better team advanced.
Runnin
Well-known member
That just shows how good his stuff is. He's filthy without throwing 98 mph.
I wonder if Kimbrel has started working on a cutter yet or not. Most arms don't last very long throwing that hard.
ChapelHillMatt
Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
Bobby did the same thing, it's just the way they are. They stick with what has worked for them all year and trust their players to get the job done.
mossy
<B>Hysterical Girlfriend<BR>That Storms Out and</B
The Dodgers did us a favor by eliminating us.
The Cardinals would have massacred us. We are just a great young team with too many questions.
How long you guys gonna argue about Fredi? If you argue another 10 pages about how if you were managing would we be magically on our way to the World Series now?
Perhaps fretting about my son and his troubles of getting thru a day of school just doesn't make this 2 inning save debate seem all that tragic. Wah. Us poor Braves fans can't win the WS every year.
The Cardinals would have massacred us. We are just a great young team with too many questions.
How long you guys gonna argue about Fredi? If you argue another 10 pages about how if you were managing would we be magically on our way to the World Series now?
Perhaps fretting about my son and his troubles of getting thru a day of school just doesn't make this 2 inning save debate seem all that tragic. Wah. Us poor Braves fans can't win the WS every year.
Some good points mossy. Hope things start getting better for your son.
Awful.
