Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates

auyushu said:
Agreed, I have my doubts about going 5 years with him, but I think he will be solid for them the next couple seasons.
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Yea. I expect Houston understands and accepts that possibility because the reward now and for a the next couple seasons is too good to pass on.
 
Braves1976 said:
Gurriel seems quite a bit more hyped to me, right or wrong, and I don't recall Houston being in on Olivera. They were in on Abreu and almost signed him but the White Sox got him instead. I'd say that deal looks great for the White Sox now. Further, I don't think it's wise to use Olivera and say okay no more Cubans. The Braves may be doing that but if so that seems an overreaction to their failure on Olivera.
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I agree he's quite a bit more likely to be good than Olivera... I just don't think they trade their top 10 prospect before they know what they have for sure.
 
zbhargrove said:
I agree he's quite a bit more likely to be good than Olivera... I just don't think they trade their top 10 prospect before they know what they have for sure.
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I don't think they trade Bregman either way unless they get a very good return for him, including a starter at least as good as Teheran. The price for Bregman should be very high but same is true for Teheran so if Houston desires Teheran I'd need Bregman back in return to move him. We've already seen the price for starting pitching right now should be quite high (recent Boston trade namely).
 
I could be wrong and I have no source matter, but I distinctly remember scouts describing Olivera as a would-be hitting machine.
 
Viz leaving with an oblique injury. Say goodbye to any chance of dealing him before the deadline. Hopefully he'll rebuild his value and be a good piece this offseason.
 
So at first it looked like we could possibly get a king's ransom for Viz and Teheran... now we likely won't even trade Teheran and Viz is hurt.
 
CJ9 said:
Second year in a row we've had a valuable closer, waited too long to deal him and then watched his value evaporate.
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Yes, but we set up this failure by allowing Snit to do what he did with Viz when at the time teams would've payed a lot for him. If we'd simply been careful and used him only in save situations and not so often we'd likely not be in this spot. It makes us look stupid yet again IMO. But the bright side of it is now we at least don't sell low on him, at least for a while. Maybe we end up doing so next off-season or in ST, who knows.
 
CJ9 said:
Second year in a row we've had a valuable closer, waited too long to deal him and then watched his value evaporate.
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That's not really fair. You can't predict injuries. Most trades don't happen before July anyways as most teams are still trying to see if they are going to be buyers or sellers. Grilli got hurt on July 11, the 1st game after the AS Break.
 
Braves1976 said:
Yes, but we set up this failure by allowing Snit to do what he did with Viz when at the time teams would've payed a lot for him. If we'd simply been careful and used him only in save situations and not so often we'd likely not be in this spot. It makes us look stupid yet again IMO. But the bright side of it is now we at least don't sell low on him, at least for a while. Maybe we end up doing so next off-season or in ST, who knows.
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Let me get this straight - Snitker CAUSED Vizcaino's injury?

Do you guys think about how crazy that sounds before you say it??? Must be Dave Roberts' fault that Kershaw's down. Of course that idiot Chip Hale put Greinke on the shelf and completely ruined Miller. John Farrell deserves to be fired since he used Kimbrel the wrong way. Ned Yost is one of the biggest idiots on the planet - not only did he blow Holland out, he's almost finished doing the same to Wade Davis.

Tell ya what though - Girardi is an absolute genius. He's completely overused Betances, Miller, and Chapman and has kept them from missing a beat.
 
clvclv said:
Let me get this straight - Snitker CAUSED Vizcaino's injury?

Do you guys think about how crazy that sounds before you say it??? Must be Dave Roberts' fault that Kershaw's down. Of course that idiot Chip Hale put Greinke on the shelf and completely ruined Miller. John Farrell deserves to be fired since he used Kimbrel the wrong way. Ned Yost is one of the biggest idiots on the planet - not only did he blow Holland out, he's almost finished doing the same to Wade Davis.

Tell ya what though - Girardi is an absolute genius. He's completely overused Betances, Miller, and Chapman and has kept them from missing a beat.
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Wow, you have really poor or lazy reading skills. That is why along with your ever childish behavior that I try to ignore you. Anyway, I have said for a week now that we'd be selling low on Viz if he were traded now after Snit overused him. If you are too stupid to use common sense I cannot help you.
 
Braves1976 said:
Wow, you have really poor or lazy reading skills. That is why along with your ever childish behavior that I try to ignore you. Anyway, I have said for a week now that we'd be selling low on Viz if he were traded now after Snit overused him. If you are too stupid to use common sense I cannot help you.
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Then PLEASE ignore me. 36 IP at this point for your closer is overuse???

Familia - 43.1 IP
Britton - 39.2 IP
Ramos - 37 IP
Jansen - 38.2 IP
Melancon - 36.2 IP
Gomez - 41.2 IP
Jeffress - 38.1 IP
Robertson - 36.1 IP
Cishek - 41 IP
Casilla - 34.2 IP
Madson - 39.1 IP
Allen - 39.2 IP
Dyson - 41.2 IP
Osuna - 40.2 IP
Ziegler - 38.1 IP
Chapman - 26.1 IP (and he was suspended for the first month)
Kimbrel - 33.0 IP
Rodney - 35.2 IP
Rondon - 32.1 IP (and the Cubs have had TONS of Save situations)
Betances - 44.0 IP
Oh - 46.1 IP
Miller - 39.1 IP
Kelvin Herrera - 40.2 IP
Addison Reed - 43.0 IP
David Phelps - 47.0 IP
Uehara - 35.2 IP
Ryan Dull - 47.1 IP

Need I go on?

Guess there are a LOT of Managers who should be fired. Common sense be damned.
 
clvclv said:
Then PLEASE ignore me. 36 IP at this point for your closer is overuse???

Familia - 43.1 IP
Britton - 39.2 IP
Ramos - 37 IP
Jansen - 38.2 IP
Melancon - 36.2 IP
Gomez - 41.2 IP
Jeffress - 38.1 IP
Robertson - 36.1 IP
Cishek - 41 IP
Casilla - 34.2 IP
Madson - 39.1 IP
Allen - 39.2 IP
Dyson - 41.2 IP
Osuna - 40.2 IP
Ziegler - 38.1 IP
Chapman - 26.1 IP (and he was suspended for the first month)
Kimbrel - 33.0 IP
Rodney - 35.2 IP
Rondon - 32.1 IP (and the Cubs have had TONS of Save situations)
Betances - 44.0 IP
Oh - 46.1 IP
Miller - 39.1 IP
Kelvin Herrera - 40.2 IP
Addison Reed - 43.0 IP
David Phelps - 47.0 IP
Uehara - 35.2 IP
Ryan Dull - 47.1 IP

Need I go on?

Guess there are a LOT of Managers who should be fired. Common sense be damned.
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This just makes you look worse because of your seeming inability to consider context or to take the time to thoughtfully or carefully read people's posts and what they're responding to before your childish rants. Further, the overuse comment had to due with the period of time Viz was used quite a bit in a short time, including some high pitch counts, non-save situations, etc., then sat for a long period (5 days IIRC) and predictably having his worst outing. I could go on but I won't. :)
 
Braves1976 said:
This just makes you look worse because of your seeming inability to consider context or to take the time to thoughtfully or carefully read people's posts and what they're responding to before your childish rants. Further, the overuse comment had to due with the period of time Viz was used quite a bit in a short time, including some high pitch counts, non-save situations, etc., then sat for a long period (5 days IIRC) and predictably having his worst outing. I could go on but I won't. :)
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Please do. You don't think ANY of those other Pitchers have had inconsistent use at any point? Your statement about "allowing Snit to do what he did with Viz when at the time teams would've payed a lot for him. If we'd simply been careful and used him only in save situations and not so often we'd likely not be in this spot." is beyond comical. The Braves didn't have their first Save situation until April 15th (Vizcaino got it). Grilli notched the Save on the 16th, and Wisler got the one on the 17th BECAUSE they were being so careful not to use Vizcaino too much.

Vizcaino's been used three days in a row exactly ONCE this season - June 15th-17th. He threw ONE pitch on the 16th. He's pitched 2 innings once, and 1.1 innings once. He threw 35 pitches on April 15th, and wasn't used again for 5 days. He threw 31 pitches on June 13th and didn't work the next day. He threw 30 pitches on June 28th and didn't work the next day.

Where is this "overuse" you speak of? If Fredi or Snitker only used their Closer in Save situations there would have been stretches of 10 or more days that Vizcaino wouldn't have even gotten up THREE times this season.
 
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