Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates

Braves1976 said:
Teheran just isn't a match for Texas at this point, but could end up being one later if Darvish and Griffin fail to return soon as expected. Griffin is on schedule to come back this Friday and Darvish soon too. If both come back strong that gives Texas who has the best numbers among starters in the AL (while being the worst in bullpen ERA) Darvish, Hamels, Perez, Lewis, Griffin and Holland. Plus Lewis is having a career season too and not like a back-end starter (almost no hit the A's last game). Further, Profar is needed on offense with Fielder, Moreland among others not hitting like they did in the past. To sum it up, Texas is thinking WS title this year and they're not going to give up offense to add another starter because as it stands they might have six starters soon and have others in the minors coming soon. What they really need is bullpen help so you're more likely to get Profar from them by sending Vizciano plus in a deal. If I am Texas I'd try to make a few trades for top relievers to make a Royals like bullpen to go with their already strong rotation that has carried their AL worst bullpen this year (and from the quotes I've seen from Jon Daniels their GM it seems that is the most they'll do barring injury).
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I'd trade our bullpen for Profar. Viz, Orgando, and Cervenka for Profar. I'll toss in another mid tier prospect.
 
Carp said:
I think it's obvious they wouldn't trade Profar for him during the season. That would just open up another hole, and they'll need Profar to make the playoffs. But in the offseason, I would think their stance would change.
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Sure. I think it has more to do with the Rangers needs now and this year. But in the off-season that's another story. Plus if they lose Darvish for the season again and/or other starters that could change things too. But right now they need Profar and don't really need another starter bad enough to give up the offense Profar is bringing to them. Now a trade with Viz included like getting Deikman with Hamels would be more interesting to them I'd think.
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I'd trade our bullpen for Profar. Viz, Orgando, and Cervenka for Profar. I'll toss in another mid tier prospect.
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I'd have no doubt that Texas as much as anyone would want Vizciano. They have the worst bullpen ERA in the AL and that was over five not long ago. The question is would they trade Profar for someone like Viz. I think it would take more than Viz but how much more is hard to say.
 
I feel like I'm missing something here - why would anyone trade a significant player for Profar? His current hot streak is fueled by a BABIP near .400 and he's not hitting for power or walking, and in his prior MLB work he was awful for about three times the number of games.
 
Carp said:
Sounds like negotiating tactics and the Cubs being cheap. There is nothing there to suggest the Cubs didn't think he was that good.
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I think the part where the GM tells Maddux he hasn't won 20 games or a cy young suggests that. Then when Maddux did both those things in his last year they didn't even up their offer. The GM at the time said he thought the Veteran pitchers were a good influence on Greg and that it was only after he left that he realized it was the other way around. The Yankees offers 37 million and the Cubs weren't even close to offering what the Braves offered at 28 million. I would say this would be the nowadays equivalent of offering Mike Trout only 20 million a year and calling it negotiating tactics. They had money to spend and they prioritized other players. No one could forsee Maddux's legendary durability at that time. He was like Drew Brees as a Charger. He was really good the last few years as a Charger but no one thought he was a future hall of famer even without the shoulder injury. A lot of pitchers are elite for a few years, Maddux is legendary for his durability/longevity. That wasn't a known factor when he was 26.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I think the part where the GM tells Maddux he hasn't won 20 games or a cy young suggests that. Then when Maddux did both those things in his last year they didn't even up their offer. The GM at the time said he thought the Veteran pitchers were a good influence on Greg and that it was only after he left that he realized it was the other way around. The Yankees offers 37 million and the Cubs weren't even close to offering what the Braves offered at 28 million. I would say this would be the nowadays equivalent of offering Mike Trout only 20 million a year and calling it negotiating tactics. They had money to spend and they prioritized other players. No one could forsee Maddux's legendary durability at that time. He was like Drew Brees as a Charger. He was really good the last few years as a Charger but no one thought he was a future hall of famer even without the shoulder injury. A lot of pitchers are elite for a few years, Maddux is legendary for his durability/longevity. That wasn't a known factor when he was 26.
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Nobody can predict injuries. But Maddux was still one of the best pitchers in baseball before hitting FA. From 88-92 he was 2nd in Wins, 9th in ERA for pitchers with 100 starts, 2nd in WAR, and I'm sure at the top of other impressive lists. There is a reason he got the offers he did from the Braves and Yankees. He wasn't just some guy that went from good to HOF. He was already HOF ability and sustained it with longevity that nobody has really ever seen.
 
Colby Lewis to the DL for at lest a month, probably 2. He joins Darvish. The Rangers would be absolute idiots not to add Teheran or at least ask.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Colby Lewis to the DL for at lest a month, probably 2. He joins Darvish. The Rangers would be absolute idiots not to add Teheran or at least ask.
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Rangers actually just lost Holland, Lewis and Darvish in a matter of ten days. Like I said before, barring injury to the rotation the Rangers probably stick to focusing on improving their bullpen. What we've seen today is that barring injury just come into play as it does with any team going for a division title that loses three starters in such a short span. They do have AJ Griffin coming off the DL this week to help a bit but I'd say they're now a team that will have to consider trading for Teheran or at least adding another back-end starter.
 
Braves1976 said:
True, Norris makes sense for them to consider for both back-end starter and possible bullpen piece once their rotation is healthy again.
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What could we hope to get for Norris? Love to turn him into something useful, but it is not likely that the return will move the needle much.
 
mfree80 said:
What could we hope to get for Norris? Love to turn him into something useful, but it is not likely that the return will move the needle much.
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Not much either way, but our best shot at anything might be a team in Texas spot right now. Norris showing some success in the bullpen might make him a target for Texas since they need rotation help now, but long-term may need bullpen help more and can put him there later if needed. Of course, Texas may just not like Norris for some reason too but if I am Texas I'd at least consider him since he'd not cost much in a trade.
 
Not sure the Lewis situation should change things from our perspective. Coppy holds all the cards here. IF we're going to trade either of Julio or Vizcaino, someone has to overpay. Unless Texas or Boston is willing to gut their systems, I just can't see putting both in the same deal. I'd be willing to deal them separately, but if you're getting both you've really gotta pony up. Gallo and Brinson would be close, but you've got to "throw in" Ryan Cordell or Andy Ibanez. Same for Boston - given the likelihood Devers may have to move off of 3B, I'd have to have Moncada and Benintendi.

If I'm moving them both in the same deal, I have to get my "answer" at 3B and LF, or I'd move them separately so I could get those answers - Julio for Gallo and Vizcaino for Benintendi (or something else).

It's still a long way to July 31st, and other contenders are going to come calling who may well be more desperate if you're patient. Again, if you meet Coppy's asking price, I'd agree with moving either or both in a heartbeat, but he's holding all the cards as things stand. If Theo and Jed aren't eventually willing to meet Cashman's asking price for Chapman or Miller, they could be in play for Vizcaino as well. The same could be said for the Gnats, the Dodgers, and even the Pirates.
 
Quoting from the MLB.com piece on Texas losing Lewis, etc: "General manager Jon Daniels admitted the Rangers may have to consider trade possibilities. Their focus in that area had been on the bullpen, but that could change."
 
thewupk said:
Nobody can predict injuries. But Maddux was still one of the best pitchers in baseball before hitting FA. From 88-92 he was 2nd in Wins, 9th in ERA for pitchers with 100 starts, 2nd in WAR, and I'm sure at the top of other impressive lists. There is a reason he got the offers he did from the Braves and Yankees. He wasn't just some guy that went from good to HOF. He was already HOF ability and sustained it with longevity that nobody has really ever seen.
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Please to tell me what current 26 year old or younger players are future first ballot hall of famers? A lot of players have a few great years. Very few do it for 10+ years. There was no way to tell which one Maddux was in 92. If you want to make that case after 93 when he wins his second straight cy young then I could agree. Maddux hadn't even had his peak yet. To say a player is a no doubt future hall of famer before he even had his peak is absurd. Reminds me of Mets fans saying Chipper Jones was the floor for David Wright because he had a few elite hitting years early in his career.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Please to tell me what current 26 year old or younger players are future first ballot hall of famers? A lot of players have a few great years. Very few do it for 10+ years. There was no way to tell which one Maddux was in 92. If you want to make that case after 93 when he wins his second straight cy young then I could agree. Maddux hadn't even had his peak yet. To say a player is a no doubt future hall of famer before he even had his peak is absurd. Reminds me of Mets fans saying Chipper Jones was the floor for David Wright because he had a few elite hitting years early in his career.
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Mike Trout

Kershaw is 28 but you have to think he's a shoe in even if he stopped pitching after this year.

Harper headed thay way.
 
Braves1976 said:
Quoting from the MLB.com piece on Texas losing Lewis, etc: "General manager Jon Daniels admitted the Rangers may have to consider trade possibilities. Their focus in that area had been on the bullpen, but that could change."
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Teheran and Viz... this is stupid. That's a perfect trade for them.
 
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