Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
sturg33
I
I don't agree... that's an unbelievably steep price for a pitcher...
But you may be right for all I know. I never would have dreamed Miller got what he got. It seems I've underestimated the pitching market in general.
I'm still hopeful we deal Teheran, because I don't see him keeping this up. In fact, his numbers align almost perfectly with Miller's from last season through their first 16 starts.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Sure, but Fernandez is working his way towards Kershaw. If Kershaw were on the block, even at $30+ mil, he's not getting dealt unless it's for that kind of package, IMO.
Teheran is a different pitcher with a longer track record than Shelby. I still only trade him if we get what Shelby got us, maybe more. He's a 2 getting paid as a 4 or 5 for the next several years. Also, his K rate AND BB rate are better than Shelby's were in those starts you mentioned. We have no other proven starters anywhere, and you're not signing one of the Teheran's caliber (especially at his price point). No real reason to trade him without being overwhelmed, even if he isn't this good.
sturg33
I
Yeah... fair enough. I realize Teheran is a good pitcher and very valuable. But I think he's a 3.5 ERA pitcher. And - we supposedly have an abundance of pitching and no hitting, so I'd like to see us leverage that organizational strength to fill a void.
I concur with the notion of "we must win the deal"... But I'd be ok if it isn't a blowout. We "win the deal" because the paring of our pitching depth plus new offensive talent is greater asset to our club than the combo of Teheran + our pitching depth.
I won't be upset if we don't deal him... but I'd lean towards dealing him if we can get a top 20 hitting prospect + a top 50 hitting prospect.
Agree with all this.
The main reason I want to deal Teheran is that I don't see any way we can get impact bats into our system without dealing him. We've already said Freeman is off limits. Who else could bring back an impact bat? So how do we fix the offense without diving into the free agent market that is one of the worst in a while? I just don't really see a way to do it without dealing Teheran, as much as I like him.
One of the reasons the Shelby deal happened is that reportedly the Marlins asking price for Fernandez is absurd and that helped justify in some small way the price for Shelby in Dave Stewarts mind.
Before the season the Marlins apparently wanted Urias, Seager, Pederson and two more from the Dodgers for him, from the Sox they wanted Moncada, Mookie, Eduardo Rodriguez, Christian Vazquez and "another pitcher."
In other words they want an insane return. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/12/22/10644874/jose-fernandez-trade-rumors-dodgers-marlins
Then of course there's this:
"The Braves’ big return for Shelby Miller only heightened the Marlins’ expectations for a Fernandez deal, sources say — and the Marlins had high expectations from the start."
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kansas-city-royals-alex-gordon-hot-stove-league-122115
I agree with this very much, I want to deal Teheran because right now his value is as high as its ever been and there's a scarcity of pitchers available. I don't think we need to win the trade in a landslide. Just get fair value, which for Teheran is at least two very good offensive prospects with some filler added in.
sturg33
I
Yeah... I think that's insane of them to ask for it... But it's the Marlins so
I lean toward wanting to deal Teheran because of the possible return I think we could get in hitting talent. But that doesn't mean I'll be disappointed if we don't. I want a great return, but if no one is offering it, I absolutely want us to keep him.
I think there's probably a better chance than not that he gets dealt, but I definitely don't think it's a sure thing. I do think Vizcaino is very likely gone, though.
I think there's probably a better chance than not that he gets dealt, but I definitely don't think it's a sure thing. I do think Vizcaino is very likely gone, though.
Eh, he's said 'we're not looking to deal Teheran' and 'I don't see us dealing Teheran'. That's definitely not as strong as his thoughts on Freeman last year - which were, 'We are not dealing Freeman'.
In fact, it's arguably not as strong as Hart's quotes before trading Kimbrel, which were things like, 'We haven't talked to anyone about Craig' and, 'We have never entertained trading him.' To me, you could argue his comments are meant more to try to gain leverage in trade discussions than to send a message to fans.
He did say, 'he's almost into right-arm status,' referring to his Freeman comments...but that quote itself leaves room open.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I want Light in any deal if we are including Viz.
Not at all. Moncada can play in the OF, and he has the big bat those guys don't.
This is also not a bad option. I like the approach Coppolella is taking...tell everyone you're not really looking to trade Teheran so that you have all the leverage. Then follow through - if you don't get what you want, hold onto him. Absolute worst-case scenario, we have a really good SP who is pretty cheap for the next 4 years. We win in any scenario.
I think everybody's pretty much on the fence - and understandably so. I don't think anyone actually "wants" to trade him - he's one of ours, his contract is all but impossible to replace, and (if kept) stands a pretty good chance of retiring a Brave and becoming one of the select few who actually went wire-to-wire with one organization.
That said, if packaging he and Vizcaino would bring us a Hamels/Diekman-like return from Boston like I referenced yesterday - Devers, Benintendi, Kopech, Raudes, and Rei - I'm not sure you shouldn't have your head examined if you said no.
If you believe - even slightly - in our young arms, adding two impact bats with the type of surplus value Benintendi and Devers project to have by 2018 puts you in position to go on that spending spree when the unbelievable free-agent class becomes available that winter. If Folty, Newcomb, Touki, or one of the other arms doesn't develop into your "Ace" by then, go buy one and slot them all down a spot. Overpay for a couple of the marginal guys who will be available this winter to land a couple pieces to make us more competitive in 2017 and 2018 (and quiet the "tanking" questions), but limit those deals to two years - even if you overpay substantially for those players.
Alex pointed out the fact that he questions how "airtight" Liberty's payroll agreement with MLB is in the SunTrust Park thread. I'd be willing to bet that IF JS/Hart/Coppy were willing to ensure the Commissioner that they have every intention of splurging in that market heads could be turned for a season - especially if we continued to buy prospects and picks by taking on bad contracts that would expire by then. The Cubs were allowed to continue operating with a target date of this season in mind even though they're in one of the biggest markets - there's little reason the league shouldn't allow usto when we were putting ourselves in position to compete at a high level for a decade as well.
That said, if packaging he and Vizcaino would bring us a Hamels/Diekman-like return from Boston like I referenced yesterday - Devers, Benintendi, Kopech, Raudes, and Rei - I'm not sure you shouldn't have your head examined if you said no.
If you believe - even slightly - in our young arms, adding two impact bats with the type of surplus value Benintendi and Devers project to have by 2018 puts you in position to go on that spending spree when the unbelievable free-agent class becomes available that winter. If Folty, Newcomb, Touki, or one of the other arms doesn't develop into your "Ace" by then, go buy one and slot them all down a spot. Overpay for a couple of the marginal guys who will be available this winter to land a couple pieces to make us more competitive in 2017 and 2018 (and quiet the "tanking" questions), but limit those deals to two years - even if you overpay substantially for those players.
Alex pointed out the fact that he questions how "airtight" Liberty's payroll agreement with MLB is in the SunTrust Park thread. I'd be willing to bet that IF JS/Hart/Coppy were willing to ensure the Commissioner that they have every intention of splurging in that market heads could be turned for a season - especially if we continued to buy prospects and picks by taking on bad contracts that would expire by then. The Cubs were allowed to continue operating with a target date of this season in mind even though they're in one of the biggest markets - there's little reason the league shouldn't allow usto when we were putting ourselves in position to compete at a high level for a decade as well.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I think/hope this is what is happening.
He's talked to the ppl with the pieces and said he wants to keep Tehran and the price is X. They have balked at that price. So Coppy is telling the fans and the teams to expect that Tehran stays. It will be up to one of those teams to come up with the price or get a third team involved in a way that gets to the price.
IF i see a tweet that Tehran is going to the sox and Devers, Moncada, and Benent-whatever are NOT in it....I'll be pissed. You have to get at least one of those guys.
Oh, of course. There's no way we trade him to the Sox and don't get at least one of them. That's not a possibility.