Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates

Preacher said:
I've thought for a long time that Braves fans tend to overrate JT and that we should move him; and I've always thought a package centered around Beni + would be fine.

But I can't wrap my head around intelligent baseball folks who think that would be ripping the BoSox off; what am I missing here? Legit question, what are we seeing that they are not? What are they seeing that we're not? Are they worried that JT is just riding some type of hot-streak and is due for serious regression?
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Again for the 50th time, we overrate him because NO ONE is going to get a top of the line starter for the next 4.5 years for what JT is signed for.

Thats why some fans want a haul for him.

Most top tier starters get 20-30 mil, JT makes that in 1.5 of 4.5 years.

I dont blame Coppy for holding out.

Again, if Julio was close to arby, yeah sure, but that is not the case here.
 
Heyward said:
Again for the 50th time, we overrate him because NO ONE is going to get a top of the line starter for the next 4.5 years for what JT is signed for.

Thats why some fans want a haul for him.

Most top tier starters get 20-30 mil, JT makes that in 1.5 of 4.5 years.

I dont blame Coppy for holding out.
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This.
 
auyushu said:
You keep talking about expected 5+ win player, and I'm talking about hitting 5 WAR once in 6 years, that is a huge difference. I'd agree with you that there is a 5% chance (or actually less probably) that Benintendi would average 5 WAR, but with a player of his offensive skill set and position there is a much greater than 5% chance he might hit 5 WAR at some point in his first 6 years of control. I look at it this way, given his performance in the minors so far I think there is probably a 50-60 % chance he becomes a very good player, maybe a 20-30 % chance of being slightly above replacement or decent, and maybe a 10-20 % chance of total bust. If his skill set translates he's going to be very good, and I think he'll hit 5 WAR at least one season out of 6.

And agreed on Julio.

This back and forth with you is amusing me highly given our discussion about Albies last summer though. Our roles were reversed, with me arguing it unreasonable to expect more than 3-3.5 WAR from Albies and you telling me he has a good chance to be a 4+ WAR guy.
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no, you changed your answer when you got called out. the odds of any prospect posting a 5 win season is very very tiny. but keep pushing that narrative to try and save face , it's cracking me up
 
bravos4evr said:
no, you changed your answer when you got called out. the odds of any prospect posting a 5 win season is very very tiny. but keep pushing that narrative to try and save face , it's cracking me up
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Feel free to quote anywhere in any of my posts that I claimed he was going to be a 5 WAR player every season for 6 years of control, because I didn't. But I do believe he will hit that mark a couple times during his 6 years of control, not sure why I'd be trying to save face when I stand by that. And it's not that rare, hell we've had multiple rookies or second year players hit that mark for the past several seasons.
 
auyushu said:
Feel free to quote anywhere in any of my posts that I claimed he was going to be a 5 WAR player every season for 6 years of control.
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You're right. It isn't there. Just something I and maybe others inferred. But you didn't say that.

I will say, however, that when we talk about trades and valuing a players, we usually are talking about the years of contractual control not a single year, so I hope you will understand why we inferred something that maybe you didn't intend.
 
If I'm a Boston fan, I wouldn't want my team to trade Moncada or Beni for Teheran. I get the fair value thing, but they can get what they need without those two guys going anywhere.
 
Enscheff said:
They said 4/60+, and I have seen predictions he could match Gordon's 4/72 contract...which is the 18 per you suggest.

I still think that is a contract the Braves should strongly consider.
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Wouldn't think twice about 4/$72 million for Desmond. I'd probably go to 4/$80 million personally if that's what it took - maybe even if the QO system stays the same. Just a perfect fit, and he'd only be 34-ish at the end of the deal.
 
nsacpi said:
You're right. It isn't there. Just something I and maybe others inferred. But you didn't say that.

I will say, however, that when we talk about trades and valuing a players, we usually are talking about the years of contractual control not a single year, so I hope you will understand why we inferred something that maybe you didn't intend.
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Oh I know why you went where you did man, particularly when we are discussing the contract value of Julio so much when determining what he's worth. And that worth on paper makes him difficult to trade. I think much of the difference of opinion on that just comes straight down to how soon people think we can come close to competing. I know you think we are going to add a couple of non-qualifying offer FA at C, OF, and 3B and be a close to .500 team next year, but I don't see us being any better than a low to mid 70s win team next year even if we do that, so I'm more willing Julio in a more fair trade as long as we get a real offensive piece back in trade.
 
chop2chip said:
If I'm a Boston fan, I wouldn't want my team to trade Moncada or Beni for Teheran. I get the fair value thing, but they can get what they need without those two guys going anywhere.
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I would be ok with trading Benintendi. With Betts, Bradley, and Moncada (they say they're keeping him at 2B, but Pedroia is still there for a while, so he's likely headed to the OF), they have a ton of serious talent in the pipeline. I think it's smart to give up a guy like Benintendi to get someone like Teheran, who they don't have on the way.
 
clvclv said:
Wouldn't think twice about 4/$72 million for Desmond. I'd probably go to 4/$80 million personally if that's what it took - maybe even if the QO system stays the same. Just a perfect fit, and he'd only be 34-ish at the end of the deal.
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Would you go the fifth year? 5/100M
 
auyushu said:
Oh I know why you went where you did man, particularly when we are discussing the contract value of Julio so much when determining what he's worth. And that worth on paper makes him difficult to trade. I think much of the difference of opinion on that just comes straight down to how soon people think we can come close to competing. I know you think we are going to add a couple of non-qualifying offer FA at C, OF, and 3B and be a close to .500 team next year, but I don't see us being any better than a low to mid 70s win team next year even if we do that, so I'm more willing Julio in a more fair trade as long as we get a real offensive piece back in trade.
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Here's the thing though. Even if Teheran's production for us this year and maybe next year is discounted to some extent in our book, it is not discounted in the books of all the contending teams shopping for pitching. I think we need to be patient in this situation and be willing to walk away from any deal that doesn't give us the value we are looking for.
 
smootness said:
I would be ok with trading Benintendi. With Betts, Bradley, and Moncada (they say they're keeping him at 2B, but Pedroia is still there for a while, so he's likely headed to the OF), they have a ton of serious talent in the pipeline. I think it's smart to give up a guy like Benintendi to get someone like Teheran, who they don't have on the way.
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They have a surplus of OFs. Likely 5 if not more?
 
Thing is, if they want real upgrades they have to look outside the organization. They have nothing, and not much on the horizon. Every team knows that they are desperate for arms or they can kiss the playoffs or WS goodbye. They may have assets, but every GM knows they have money and have to do something
 
nsacpi said:
Would you go the fifth year? 5/100M
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Would be pushing it. If there's no QO penalty? Probably. Likely to be a safer bet than Cespedes at their expected numbers, and you've gotta love his flexibility.

I think adding him to play 3B, going out and getting an "under-the-radar" guy like Michael Saunders for LF at a reasonable price, and adding Wieters if he can be signed for 4 years or less would be really solid moves. I know lots of folks are against Wieters, but I still would love to have a left-handed option with pop behind the plate to pair with Flowers. If you were able to get 25 bombs from the C platoon, and 20+ in LF and at 3B, I think you'd have a pretty good offense. You could then eat some of Markakis' money to move him or make him your primary LH bench bat and play him in RF against tough lefties if you wanted to sit Mallex against them.

Against RHPs:

CF- Mallex, SS- Swanson, 1B- Freeman, 3B- Desmond, C- Wieters, LF- Saunders, RF- Inciarte, SP, 2B- Albies

Bench: Markakis, Flowers, Peterson or d'Arnaud, Adonis

Against LHPs:

2B- Albies, SS- Swanson, 1B- Freeman, 3B- Desmond, LF- Saunders, RF- Markakis, C- Flowers, CF- Inciarte, SP

Bench: Mallex, Wieters, Peterson or d'Arnaud, Adonis

Lots of flexibility with both pop and speed on the bench, and you could still carry an extra pen arm.
 
Enscheff said:
They said 4/60+, and I have seen predictions he could match Gordon's 4/72 contract...which is the 18 per you suggest.

I still think that is a contract the Braves should strongly consider.
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He (Ian Desmond) is having a career year at 30, which far exceeds anything he did in the prime of his career.

his career high OBP before this one was .335. He struck out 180+ times in 2014 and 2015. Had a .290 OBP in 2015.

I don't see why anyone here would be very excited about another strike out artist with power who has already had some bad, bad years.

He doesn't walk. He has cut his k rate from about to be bounced out of baseball to still pretty bad even in this career year.

His average is being fueled by a BABIP near .400 that is pretty obviously unsustainable.

This is a sucker signing.
 
smootness said:
I would be ok with trading Benintendi. With Betts, Bradley, and Moncada (they say they're keeping him at 2B, but Pedroia is still there for a while, so he's likely headed to the OF), they have a ton of serious talent in the pipeline. I think it's smart to give up a guy like Benintendi to get someone like Teheran, who they don't have on the way.
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I don't think Atlanta has to get Moncada, but I think they should require two of Benitiendi, Devers, and Moncada, plus maybe a couple of modest things.

I think I want them to trade Teheran, but that assumes that he brings back a monster group of prospects. I don't think Teheran will be a key piece in a Braves contender.
 
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