I'd rather pay someone who is 28-30 during the 2020 season when that player can actually help us compete as opposed to paying someone who is 28-30 during the 2017 season when I don't think we'll be competing for the playoffs.
Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
I'd rather pay someone who is 28-30 during the 2020 season when that player can actually help us compete as opposed to paying someone who is 28-30 during the 2017 season when I don't think we'll be competing for the playoffs.
bravos4evr
Still Playing the Waiting Game
I'm not a GM talking to teams across baseball, so I don't know who is available. But I don't think it's hard to believe that there are teams with impact hitting prospects that would deal for Julio. We should deal him for hitting, then we will have our pitching prospects ready to go in 2019/2020. That's when we could spend that extra money on hitters and be ready to go, especially considering those will be the big free agency years for a lot of good players, much better than what is available this offseason.
Like I've said multiple times, I realize the new stadium and having to put a better product on the field will probably keep this from happening. I just don't like trying to make fans happy immediately and somewhat jeopardizing things in the long run.
Honestly, yeah that's fine with me. I've said this on here a few times before, but I don't think we're close to ready to compete. I'd rather continue picking up assets, high picks, etc. and build for 2019/2020. You're talking to someone who's also a Magic and Jaguars fan. I'm basically a tanking expert at this point.
IF - a huge if, of course - Seattle would bite on O'Neill, I'd probably jump at that personally. Just don't think Arodys holds that much value IMO. Couple that with a Teheran for Gallo swap and the only money you should need to spend moving forward could be used on a replacement for the two of them since no one seems to want to spend on any free-agents.
CF- Mallex, SS- Swanson, 1B- Freeman, LF- O'Neill, 3B- Gallo, C- Flowers/???, RF- Markakis, SP, 2B- Albies
Package Inciarte, Peterson, and an arm or two and go after a Sonny Gray to replace Julio at the front of the rotation.
Yeah that's a fair point. I'm just hesitant to spend big on players I'm skeptical of before we're ready to do that, which hurts the financial flexibility in the future. I hope the payroll goes up like they keep saying it is. Just not sure I believe it.
bravos4evr
Still Playing the Waiting Game
Problem is the casual fans matter more than the educated fans do. They don't understand "rebuilding" they think everything is the NFL where one draft can solve all your problems. They want to see a competitive team and if they don't they won't come to games and spend $$$$. The team kinda HAS to make a show of improving this offseason. If they improve 3 spots and add Albies and Swanson, they could have a shot at .500 and if you are chasing .500 you are only a few games away from the 2nd wildcard most years.
Of course Liberty is going to turn a buck as well, but the issue has always been attendance outside of the hey day of the 90's. The placement of the park, along with the changes being made to the interstate intersection, and the addition of more trendy eateries and bars should make for much better attendance. Now they just have to put an entertaining product on the field. My gf lives about 2 miles from the stadium and the neighborhood is already talking about the restaurants that are coming.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
The issue that I see is that many people are using the thought process of building for 2017, 2018 instead of a longer term process that looks at improvement in 2017, being good in 2018, realistic contention in 2019 and beyond. The thing is that the FA possibilities after this season are fairly horrible and considerably limited.
Could the Braves sign Cespedes? Maybe. But, he's going to be extremely costly and is getting on the wrong side of his career. If you do sign him you have to hope he will maintain but be prepared for a gradual )hopefully) decline, say just as good in 2017, 15% off in 2018, another 15% off in 2019, another 15% off in 2020. So, you would have a guy who is 50% of the player he is now on your team in 2020 but making as much money or more than he makes in 2017. It's a huge gamble based on the desire to be competitive in 2017.
Could the Braves sign Desmond for LF? Almost surely. But should they? He's having a career year in an extreme hitters park surrounded by an excellent team. Is he the player you see today (the one you pay for) or is he the player who played in Washington? Players blossom all the time but how would everyone feel if he was doing this in Coors?
The point is that the Braves young talent isn't likely to be huge contributors to success in 2017. Atlanta doesn't have a Harper or Trout or Clemens or Martinez ready to jump from the minors straight to the All-Star team. Guys like Albies, Swanson, all the young pitchers, are likely to come up and struggle a bit before settling in and either growing into good (maybe great) ML players or wash out to be replaced by others who will likely go through the same process. Look at Wisler, Blair, Folty, etc. and you see the process working with the young pitching.
Even IF the Braves sign top FA talent in the offseason (and the hit rate on targets that are actually good and fit needs will have to be off the charts because of the lack of options), the youngsters are still going to struggle. 2017 is a pipe dream. That's why you have to think of 2018 and beyond NOW.
Even Teheran, Freeman, Viz all lose value, maybe significant value, over the next 2-3 years simply because they get older, more expensive and under less control. That doesn't even take into consideration possible injury or outside influences such as PED suspension (Viz).
The farm is improved. It may actually be one of the best overall in the game. However, the rebuild isn't close to being finished and can't (or shouldn't) be rushed.
Agree with all of this.
I keep seeing a magical year being applied to the rebuild. I don't understand this. Is supposedly all of our Single A prospects going to hit the major leagues at the same time and we have a team full of 20-23 year old studs and payroll of $50M? When is this year and how is it quantified? Do we sit around and wait on this year and alienate our fanbase and go into debt?
Another question...You've been given $60M to spend and you're kind of screwed with the international market now. How do you spend that money?
bravos4evr
Still Playing the Waiting Game
I don't see why it has to be one or the other. The team can add free agents to improve in 2017 without giving up on the rebuild or "rushing" they can show improvement and draw the fans back and still be rebuilding towards the future.
I don't either. You can spend your budget on free agency and keep all of your prospects. The free agents you sign can be traded one day as well for more prospects. This is nothing new.
Yes, the ROI on the players will get expensive towards the end of the contract, but since you have all of these young prospects hitting the scene it balances out your payroll, and your payroll has gone up since you haven't punted attendance the last 2-3 years.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I'm not a big Desmond or Prado guy.
But what I like is that both guys can play a ton of spots. So if the contract isn't too bad you can move them around and fill holes as opportunities present themselves. It would be nice to have Desmond at 3B and then sign Donaldson and be able to move him to LF or CF. Could also play him at 2B to keep Albies time down. Etc etc.
I worry about a long term deal for Desmond. We aren't paying anyone next year. Give him a 10 million dollar signing bonus and then keep the payments low for the other years.
bravos4evr
Still Playing the Waiting Game
I worry about Donaldson as he will be pushing 33 when he hits free agency. I picked Cespedes only because I think he generates more fan interest and attendance and thus more revenue for the team. On a baseball level alone, Desmond makes as much, if not more sense, on a business level, I think Cespdes adds enough draw and marketing opportunity to rationalize the greater cost.
This is the major fallacy many of the posters here seem to believe. They seem to be under the impression that the Braves are going to one day wake up and have all these prospects ready to be 3 WAR players all at once, and ONLY THEN is it OK to improve the team by signing an impact FA. At that magical moment in baseball history the Braves are going to instantly jump from a 60 win team to a 90 win team, and be a consistent playoff contender for the rest of time.
Yeah...that's not how it's going to play out. Young guys are going to get better, and some are going to fail. FAs are going to be brought in to fill major holes, and then more FAs are going to be brought in to fill other holes in subsequent years. The Braves have to attempt to get better, and then they will win 75 games. Then they will try o get even better, and will win 85 games. Then they are going to get better and win 90+ games. Then they are going to work on sustaining it.
They simply aren't going from 60 wins to 90 wins in a single offseason by timing FA signings exactly right to coincide with some magical date when all their prospects are ready to contribute. The jump to 75 wins has to happen first.
I'm not expecting 60 to 90 wins one year, and I'm not sure why you keep implying that. My viewpoint is I think we're better equipped to make it sustainable long term if we wait a few more years to try making the jump to 75, then 90.
I get that it's not likely to be the way the front office goes about it, but I think that's the best way to go.