Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Come on now, can't you just tell everyone here how you really feel? No need to hold anything back. Do you need a hug? Auyushu, give this angry kid a hug Freddie Freeman style.
Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
Come on now, can't you just tell everyone here how you really feel? No need to hold anything back. Do you need a hug? Auyushu, give this angry kid a hug Freddie Freeman style.
Auyushu, give this angry kid a hug Freddie Freeman style.
Clearly I missed the opportunity for a friendship hug, my life will forever be incomplete. On a side note, he went out all Half Baked style by telling everyone to F off, but he didn't tell one person they were cool. I guess he missed the memo.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Clearly I missed the opportunity for a friendship hug, my life will forever be incomplete. On a side note, he went out all Half Baked style by telling everyone to F off, but he didn't tell one person they were cool. I guess he missed the memo.
I honestly felt sorry for him when I read that post. If someone like you sets him off then he has some real issues to take care of. Personally, I have found you to be one of the most reasonable posters on this forum. It is posters like yourself that keep me around when the knuckleheads make me want to leave.
Wtf. I'm too lazy to see where all this started but wth
Managuarantano's Volunteers
<B><I>The Artist Formally Known as <P>Ventura's St
Clearly I missed the opportunity for a friendship hug, my life will forever be incomplete. On a side note, he went out all Half Baked style by telling everyone to F off, but he didn't tell one person they were cool. I guess he missed the memo.
Dang, he needs to edit that in so he can go out the right way.
I'll have to remember to mention you were cool for my inevitable tirade in 2 years when Randy Ventura gets traded for a pitcher.
chop2chip
Well-known member
That doesn't even make sense and totally contradicts Fangraphs Top 50 trade value piece.
Yeah, no matter how much you think what he is doing this year is a mirage, even a #3 starter with Julio's team friendly deal is worth a top 50 prospect. That comment was just ridiculous. Him being in their top 50 value piece just makes it more silly.
chop2chip
Well-known member
I do think Braves fans are punch drunk on Teheran this year, especially off the heels of the the Shelby trade, but there seems to be a huge contrarian headwind coming from Snarkgraphs re: Teheran. I don't even understand the objective reasoning behind it either.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I really have never bought the idea that the Braves did now win because they did not have power pitching.
if you actually look at the results, you will see plenty of excellent starts by Glavine and Maddux that the Braves both won and lost. Glavine in particular lost his share of pitching duels, but won more than you might recall as well.
I suspect the Braves best three in the Big Three era were the better WAR pitchers in most matchup.
Also, if we are limiting starts to the postseason, you still must account for all the Series the Braves won. The Braves won PLENTY of postseason series over their run. Really, to show a poor record, you have to limit the analysis to World Series, which is fairly ridiculous. And even the World Series outcomes doesn't indicate the loser's starter pitched poorly.
And not every Braves loss was to some team's fireballer. Often times they lost to soft throwers. I just don't really buy that narrative.
I'm willing to look at a case otherwise, but I would certainly recollect that the Braves biggest problem in those postseasons was an inability to score a lot of runs and often times an inability to win games that went into the bullpens.
I would say the Braves pitching was the single thing that made them the most competitive in the postseason. It was the lack of hitting and relief that generally cost them.
....
Now should the Braves have spent money on Denny Neagle rather than going out and getting a lock down bullpen? Maybe, maybe not. An interesting question, I guess.
if you actually look at the results, you will see plenty of excellent starts by Glavine and Maddux that the Braves both won and lost. Glavine in particular lost his share of pitching duels, but won more than you might recall as well.
I suspect the Braves best three in the Big Three era were the better WAR pitchers in most matchup.
Also, if we are limiting starts to the postseason, you still must account for all the Series the Braves won. The Braves won PLENTY of postseason series over their run. Really, to show a poor record, you have to limit the analysis to World Series, which is fairly ridiculous. And even the World Series outcomes doesn't indicate the loser's starter pitched poorly.
And not every Braves loss was to some team's fireballer. Often times they lost to soft throwers. I just don't really buy that narrative.
I'm willing to look at a case otherwise, but I would certainly recollect that the Braves biggest problem in those postseasons was an inability to score a lot of runs and often times an inability to win games that went into the bullpens.
I would say the Braves pitching was the single thing that made them the most competitive in the postseason. It was the lack of hitting and relief that generally cost them.
....
Now should the Braves have spent money on Denny Neagle rather than going out and getting a lock down bullpen? Maybe, maybe not. An interesting question, I guess.
Yeah, there is a ton of extremism on both sides of the Julio value discussion, it's pretty weird. Fangraphs seems to have taken a definite step back in quality since Kiley left (understandable to an extent since he was awesome, but even so).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Agree with the punch drunk part.
On Fangraphs, that comment was from a chat with their prospect guy. The trade value is written by Dave Cameron, so it's two separate opinions. Even though Cameron isn't a massive Teheran fan either based on talent alone.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I think it is relatively simple. He's ERA is outpacing his peripherals.
Apparently most major league clubs don't think he is as good as he is showing. IF they really did think he was a frontline ace, on this good a contract, teams would be meeting the Braves asking price. Reality appears to be that most teams seem him as a middle rotation guy who could come back to earth at any time. That's why they don't want to shell out what the Braves are asking.
I share their skepticism. I think the Braves should hold on to a big asking price and keep him if they don't get it. But I'm fully prepared for this ace business to come back to earth.
Of course there are no guarantee to win a WS, but certainly there are ways to assemblw a team that is better suited for a deep playoff run. The Cards, Giants, and Royals consistently going deep into the postseason isn't just pure luck.
Well that's the thing, they had good pitching performances, but were going against superb pitching performances. We had many games those two pitched where they went 6-7 innings and gave up 2-4 runs, and lost 4-3, 3-2, 2-1 against other teams Aces. That's certainly not all on them of course, but Glavine being a contact pitcher was not a benefit in the postseason. Maddux himself had a respectable postseason ERA, but his postseason ERA was much worse that his in season ERA during our postseason stretch (He was a dominating Ace during the regular season, but pitched more like a low end #1 in the postseason). It's certainly not the only reason we only won one WS title, but it's a big contributing cause.
One of my biggest disappointments with JS was his trading strategies in our late 90s and early 2000s years left much to be desired. I fully believe if he had traded for Schilling rather than Ashby back in 2000 we'd have at least one more WS title. JS always doled out or prospects for minor upgrades rather than going for it when we had our players in their primes. Then of course at the end of the run he went 180 degrees in the opposite direction and made all in trades when we didn't have a legit shot.
No joke, he is displaying textbook characteristics of bipolar/schizophrenia.
But Fangraphs doesn't seem to be saying 'he's not an ace.' Of course that's a reasonable stance. They seem to be saying, 'Eh, he's not much of anything.'