Vizcaino trade market?

Given he's under control for 3.5 years, would certainly need a big return.

Not as big as Kimbrel or Giles but i wouldnt trade him just to trade him.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I would try to up it a bit and have them throw Dylan Thompson in the deal. I think Zunino/O'neil for Viz is a fair trade... but I want a win if at all possible. Never hurts to get another pitcher..

I also think if this is the FO thinking, it might change how they draft. I would hate to be in coppi's shoes. I want Lewis and Groome, but if I made a deal like that, I would probably lean more Groome and try to over slot a bat at #40.
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If Lewis is there at 3, he needs to be the pick.

I know you dont draft for need in baseball but we really really need a very high impact bat in the system like a Kris Bryant type. Swanson will be up in 2017, maybe this year sometime.

Swanson, Lewis, Albies, Freeman, Incierte is some pieces.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I don't know Seattle for squat.. but everything I have read, is that they really need a consistent closer.. They could move cishek to the 8inning role and Viz to the closer role and literally run away with the west. We could also let them know that Texas is interested in Viz and started out with a very intriguing offer.
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You are right on all counts. The closer spot is Seattle's Achilles heel. Viz at 90-95% conversion versus Cishek at 70-75% conversion is a crucial upgrade for them, and DiPoto is smart enough to know it. And pitting them against Texas would be a brilliant way to bump the consideration - although, if we got Zunino and O'Neill that would be a really nice - and targeted - return. I get tired of hearing "best available player." How about a catcher and a right fielder? Maybe a 3B?
 
Nobody has yet to post a valid reason why Vizcaino should be traded. The most noteworthy has been "he's got more service time." The idiots follow in prosession.
 
Knucksie said:
Nobody has yet to post a valid reason why Vizcaino should be traded. The most noteworthy has been "he's got more service time." The idiots follow in prosession.
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On a team not yet ready to compete for this season and likely next year, a closer is not something that will benefit us. We are wasting control of him. So if we can get a good packe in return with some high upside prospects, you jump all over it. We already have a ton of arms in the pen
 
Knucksie said:
Nobody has yet to post a valid reason why Vizcaino should be traded. The most noteworthy has been "he's got more service time." The idiots follow in prosession.
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IF Viz has more value as a trade piece than a long term closer for the Braves, then he should be moved. Problem is, that is a subjective valuation. There are some, me included and maybe foremost, who think that having a closer of any type right now isn't of much value and, if he can bring back multiple long term pieces who fit long term needs and have better overall talent value, he should be traded. Even if you believe that he is a high end closer who will provide that value over the next 3 or so years (I don't), he still will increase dramatically in cost as a true competitive date approaches. As his service time increases and his cost increases and his FA date approaches, his value declines.

I guess you could argue that if he averages 40 saves the next 2 years then his value in year three would be very high, even higher than it is today at a low cost and years of service control left. But, the Braves aren't very likely to offer him 40 save opportunities the next two years.

I don't think you can give him away. But, I think it borders on idiocy to expect to continue status quo, with no real explanation as to where the offense comes from, even if the young pitching exceeds expectations. Sure, Albies and Swanson will improve 2B and SS and maybe, just maybe M Smith and/or Inciarte will continue growth into better players. But, Markakis is on the far wrong side of good. Freeman is spending his best age years last year, this year and next year and will likely be in decline by the time the pitching has achieved enough seasoning to be good. Everything else is a lot of long shot hope and whistling past the graveyard. There's no FA hope out there either especially if you're paying a closer $10M per year (assuming Viz stays good enough to earn that). The draft helps, but not soon, unless you strike quick gold like the Cubs did with Bryant (unlikely and unusual).

Trade for offense? What? Young pitching? That's counter productive since you just spent so much time trading for it.

The best path is to trade the veterans for as much young offense as you can get and accept that the rebuild continues for another year or two no matter how much people want to Magic it away.
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
On a team not yet ready to compete for this season and likely next year, a closer is not something that will benefit us. We are wasting control of him. So if we can get a good packe in return with some high upside prospects, you jump all over it. We already have a ton of arms in the pen
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Your response was more moderate than mine. I celebrate your maturity and patience.
 
Knucksie said:
Nobody has yet to post a valid reason why Vizcaino should be traded. The most noteworthy has been "he's got more service time." The idiots follow in prosession.
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I am one of Viz biggest fans, I liked him first go around and was happy to get him back too even though I also liked La Stella as folks around here know. Further, I agree that we shouldn't look to trade him but for the right price you have to listen. If we get a crazy offer like Philly got for their closer or what Kimbrel brought back to the Padres you have to listen and say yes. Houston messed up trading so much for Philly's closer and would be better off this year and future had they not made it. I'd do that type of trade for Viz all day long as it would help our starting rotation and give us some more solid prospects too. Everyone has a price in other words.

That said, I would be careful not to expect such big returns as that Giles trade for Viz. Giles had a track record of two years closing and putting up Kimbrel numbers that Viz doesn't have yet. Plus I'd think folks can see how that move blew up in Houston's face and will think twice about giving so much up in the future. But if I am wrong and someone wants to offer a deal that helps improve us next year and future even with us losing Viz who's a big piece. Then okay let's talk, but if not I'd keep him and wait another year at least before considering trading him.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
IF Viz has more value as a trade piece than a long term closer for the Braves, then he should be moved. Problem is, that is a subjective valuation. There are some, me included and maybe foremost, who think that having a closer of any type right now isn't of much value and, if he can bring back multiple long term pieces who fit long term needs and have better overall talent value, he should be traded. Even if you believe that he is a high end closer who will provide that value over the next 3 or so years (I don't), he still will increase dramatically in cost as a true competitive date approaches. As his service time increases and his cost increases and his FA date approaches, his value declines.

I guess you could argue that if he averages 40 saves the next 2 years then his value in year three would be very high, even higher than it is today at a low cost and years of service control left. But, the Braves aren't very likely to offer him 40 save opportunities the next two years.

I don't think you can give him away. But, I think it borders on idiocy to expect to continue status quo, with no real explanation as to where the offense comes from, even if the young pitching exceeds expectations. Sure, Albies and Swanson will improve 2B and SS and maybe, just maybe M Smith and/or Inciarte will continue growth into better players. But, Markakis is on the far wrong side of good. Freeman is spending his best age years last year, this year and next year and will likely be in decline by the time the pitching has achieved enough seasoning to be good. Everything else is a lot of long shot hope and whistling past the graveyard. There's no FA hope out there either especially if you're paying a closer $10M per year (assuming Viz stays good enough to earn that). The draft helps, but not soon, unless you strike quick gold like the Cubs did with Bryant (unlikely and unusual).

Trade for offense? What? Young pitching? That's counter productive since you just spent so much time trading for it.

The best path is to trade the veterans for as much young offense as you can get and accept that the rebuild continues for another year or two no matter how much people want to Magic it away.
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So, you think Knucksie is an idiot, too. Good for you.
 
Braves1976 said:
I am one of Viz biggest fans, I liked him first go around and was happy to get him back too even though I also liked La Stella as folks around here know. Further, I agree that we shouldn't look to trade him but for the right price you have to listen. If we get a crazy offer like Philly got for their closer or what Kimbrel brought back to the Padres you have to listen and say yes. Houston messed up trading so much for Philly's closer and would be better off this year and future had they not made it. I'd do that type of trade for Viz all day long as it would help our starting rotation and give us some more solid prospects too. Everyone has a price in other words.

That said, I would be careful not to expect such big returns as that Giles trade for Viz. Giles had a track record of two years closing and putting up Kimbrel numbers that Viz doesn't have yet. Plus I'd think folks can see how that move blew up in Houston's face and will think twice about giving so much up in the future. But if I am wrong and someone wants to offer a deal that helps improve us next year and future even with us losing Viz who's a big piece. Then okay let's talk, but if not I'd keep him and wait another year at least before considering trading him.
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Oh, sure. I like Viz tremendously. It's about building an offense, and the one we have is among the sorriest in history - and here's the important part - with little help in sight. We need to go get some help. I feel a lot better about backfilling Viz than developing power in our system. We aren't good at it and don't draft for it.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Oh, sure. I like Viz tremendously. It's about building an offense, and the one we have is among the sorriest in history - and here's the important part - with little help in sight. We need to go get some help. I feel a lot better about backfilling Viz than developing power in our system. We aren't good at it and don't draft for it.
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I understand, I'd want a return that helps us next year and in the future. If I cannot get that I'd hold on to him and let him build value a la Giles and then probably get even more later if he stays healthy (track record helps and due to his injuries and PED suspension he has a shorter one at this point while showing great stuff).

That said, it is possible a team like the Rangers maybe want a closer badly enough they pay that price I'd want at the trade deadline.
 
Knucksie said:
Nobody has yet to post a valid reason why Vizcaino should be traded. The most noteworthy has been "he's got more service time." The idiots follow in prosession.
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pro·ces·sion

prəˈseSHən/

noun

1.

a number of people or vehicles moving forward in an orderly fashion, especially as part of a ceremony or festival.

"a funeral procession"

synonyms: parade, march, march past, cavalcade, motorcade, cortège; More

Knucksie sure has a dizzying intellect.
 
Deester11 said:
pro·ces·sion
prəˈseSHən/
noun
1.
a number of people or vehicles moving forward in an orderly fashion, especially as part of a ceremony or festival.
"a funeral procession"
synonyms: parade, march, march past, cavalcade, motorcade, cortège; More

Knucksie sure has a dizzying intellect.
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I don't know anything about his politics but I got him pegged as a Trump voter.
 
nsacpi said:
I have nothing but respect and admiration for Trump voters.
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If you say so homie. :)

Seriously though, you set that one up to where I couldn't pass up making that joke. Which obviously shows I am no Trump supporter but I do have friends that are, I just don't agree with them on politics.
 
50PoundHead said:
I get the logic behind trading him, I just don't want to see him given away and I don't know what he would net.
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My trusty fair value calculator says he is worth a prospect in the 50-75 range on Top 100 lists. Teheran is worth someone in the 10-25 range. That's fair value. Of course I want more than fair value.
 
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