VP debate

57Brave said:
from Amanda Terkel
_________

Pence repeatedly tried to skirt around statements Trump actually said — or simply shook his head and ignored the question.

“I’m happy to defend [Trump],” Pence said.

But Pence rarely actually defended Trump. Instead, he dodged or outright denied his running mate’s statements. Some examples:
RUSSIA

When Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Hillary Clinton’s running mate, accused Trump of praising Russian president Vladimir Putin as a “great leader,” Pence denied it and called Putin a “small and bullying leader.” But Trump has repeatedly praised Putin.

When Kaine said that Trump recently claimed Putin was not going into Ukraine, Pence denied it. But Trump did say, “He’s not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He’s not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want.” Putin took the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

Pence himself also recently said, “I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country.”
NUCLEAR WEAPONS

When Kaine challenged Pence to defend Trump’s comment that more nations should get nuclear weapons, Pence said “he never said that.” But Trump did.
TAXES

When Kaine pointed out that Trump had once promised to release his tax returns, Pence replied, “He said he will do it.” Trump has repeatedly said he can’t release his returns because he is being audited by the IRS. (The IRS has said nothing prevents him from releasing them.) There is absolutely no evidence that Trump will actually release his returns. His son, Donald Trump Jr., has admitted that there’s a more political reason the campaign is not releasing the returns: It would be a distraction and create too many “questions.”
IMMIGRATION

Kaine said Trump wants to have a “deportation force”: “They want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people.” Pence called Kaine’s statement “nonsense.” Last year, Trump himself used the term “deportation force” in an interview with MSNBC’s “Morning Joe”: “You’re going to have a deportation force, and you’re going to do it humanely. And you’re going to bring the country – and frankly, the people, because you have some excellent wonderful people, some fantastic people that have been here for a long period of time.”
MEXICANS

Pence tried to defend Trump’s comments about Mexicans after Kaine pointed out that the GOP presidential candidate has called immigrants from the country “rapists.”

“He also said, ‘many of them are good people,’” Pence replied.

Trump’s actual quote last year was: “When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.”
ABORTION

When Kaine said that Trump had said women should be punished for abortion, Pence said, “Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy.” But Trump did say that women who have abortions should be punished
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Where was this published? Oh, let me google ... the Huffington Post. Please, for your own intellectual sanity, stop reading drivel. It's SEO clickbait.

I don't care whether or not you agree with Pence, hate Trump, or love Clinton ... that article is factually incorrect and doesn't ever really give justice to Pence's positions except like 3 quotes at the end when the author ran out of misrepresentations to recall.

From last night (my summarizations):

Pence on Putin: Said that his comments were misconstrued, offered the correction that he believed Putin had done more for his country on the global stage than Obama. Went further than Trump to pointedly criticize Putin. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump and the Ukraine: Said that Trump was aware of the Crimean situation, was talking about future encroachments. = Not a denial.
Pence on Nuclear Weapons: Attempted to reign in overstatements and overexaggerations about Trump's comments on South Korea and Japan getting access to nuclear weapons. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump's Mexican comment: Pointed out that Trump's comments were not directed at all Mexican immigrants

My point: Pence didn't just sit there and offer rote denials. He did have responses that, prepared or otherwise, directly addressed the attacks. He also levied a few of his own. One of my favorites was, 'Senator Kaine, if our sons had done what Hillary Clinton did with her e-mails they would've been court-martialed." Of course, the moderator from hell talked over that entire exchange, which had value for both campaigns.

As I iterated before, whether or not people chose to believe Pence is another story entirely but let's at least undertake a full evaluation of the facts.
 
57Brave said:
As did the maligning of 33.7 million Mexican-Americans, two-thirds of whom were born here.
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If we're going to play the PC game, what do you have to say about Kaine interrupting, interjecting, and ignoring the first (female) Asian-American to moderate a national debate?
 
WRONG
.......

Trump needs to put a dent in the LAtino coalition forming around HRC,

I see no outrage from Asian-americans over Kaine talking over the moderator.
Doubt it will lose HRC a vote.
"whip out the Mexican thing " which I thought just s funny stuid thing to say -- doesn't look like it is getting the traction among Latino Americans Pence was sent out there to recruit.

I forgot, you are a Putin apologist.
Correct me if I am wrong
.....

Did you read the Bill Moyers piece ?
It included this

That this was the seventh use of the term “criminal aliens” in the evening — all by Trump’s running mate, who was leaning on the term as an insulting synonym for immigrants (who actually commit fewer crimes than US-born Americans), probably helped make “that Mexican thing” an instant meme. So did Pence’s ludicrous suggestion that Trump’s “good people” disclaimer — tossed into a rant about immigrants when he launched his campaign — was sincere. In case you need a refresher, here’s what the tax-averse billionaire had to say:

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably — probably — from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.”
 
Why bother trying to defend indefensible foibles? Neither candidate really tried that hard to defend their running partner's most egregious sins. Both candidates were on offense for the most part. The difference is that Pence is good at it and Kaine isn't. Kaine came across as Howard Deanish to me. Pence reminds me of the husband of the Pioneer woman from the food network.
 
It was a VP debate where there are no winners and losers. The object is to move the ball up the field for the top of the ticket.
Pence worked for himself toward a 2020 run for POTUS

No more or less
 
57Brave said:
now Pence's performance last night is beginning to make sense

Todd Zwillich

‏@toddzwillich
PA GOP source heard from mult pastors: "Evangelicals believe God is using Trump to deliver Pence to the WH, & that Trump will be eliminated"
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lmao
 
Were Trump to be elected, I'd bet real money (dollars, pesos, yuan, or rubles) that he wouldn't finish a term. So the pastors are probably on to something there, divine intervention or no.
 
Hawk said:
Where was this published? Oh, let me google ... the Huffington Post. Please, for your own intellectual sanity, stop reading drivel. It's SEO clickbait.

I don't care whether or not you agree with Pence, hate Trump, or love Clinton ... that article is factually incorrect and doesn't ever really give justice to Pence's positions except like 3 quotes at the end when the author ran out of misrepresentations to recall.

From last night (my summarizations):

Pence on Putin: Said that his comments were misconstrued, offered the correction that he believed Putin had done more for his country on the global stage than Obama. Went further than Trump to pointedly criticize Putin. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump and the Ukraine: Said that Trump was aware of the Crimean situation, was talking about future encroachments. = Not a denial.
Pence on Nuclear Weapons: Attempted to reign in overstatements and overexaggerations about Trump's comments on South Korea and Japan getting access to nuclear weapons. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump's Mexican comment: Pointed out that Trump's comments were not directed at all Mexican immigrants

My point: Pence didn't just sit there and offer rote denials. He did have responses that, prepared or otherwise, directly addressed the attacks. He also levied a few of his own. One of my favorites was, 'Senator Kaine, if our sons had done what Hillary Clinton did with her e-mails they would've been court-martialed." Of course, the moderator from hell talked over that entire exchange, which had value for both campaigns.

As I iterated before, whether or not people chose to believe Pence is another story entirely but let's at least undertake a full evaluation of the facts.
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This is the kind of crap that really gets to me. Putin is a friggin' unprincipled undemocratic stooge. It's easy to do whatever when there is no meaningful opposition to what you want to do. I'm sure Obama would have done a lot of things--likely some of them bad--if all he had to do was wave his hand and the metaphorical waters would part. I can't think of any reasonable American who would switch places with a Russian citizen. Ours is a system of laws, not of men. It seems that a lot of conservatives get sticky pants over the prospect of crippling our democratic institutions.
 
True, Pence does carry on the evangelicals belief that anyone not like them shouldn't have the same rights.
 
One of these two will be President because I bet there's impeachment **** going on within 6 months of inauguration no matter which Democrat wins.
 
# Mike Pence won Debate

Jenna Johnson Verified account
‏@wpjenna

Mike Pence asked point-blank if the campaign's position is still to ban Muslims based on their religion. "Of course not," he replies.
 
yeezus said:
True, Pence does carry on the evangelicals belief that anyone not like them shouldn't have the same rights.
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honey-true.gif
 
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