Way Too Early Impressions

You lost me at the signing of Strasburg, but I agree with the rest...assuming Teheran re-establishes his value and is sold high.

I'm not looking forward to the constant absurd scenarios where the Braves sign Strasburg though. He is a Boras client that will get $200M+ on the FA market. I can't even remember the last time the Braves signed a prominent Boras client, and the largest FA contract they have ever given out was about 1/3 of what Strasburg will ultimately command.

Strasburg to the Braves isn't happening, just like Matt Holliday, Jon Lester and David Price weren't happening. It didn't stop posters here from coming up with ludicrous scenarios involving home town discounts and major cost saving trades, but I wish folks would wake up and realize it simply isn't happening.
Agree to disagree. But, the new stadium coupled with our multitude of prospects and bright future makes Atlanta so attractive. Strasburg would be smart to come here on a 5 to 6-year deal. May not happen, but would be smart.
 
I meant patience on hearing the trade... at the time - folks thought maybe Seager, Puig, or Urias may have been involved. Instead we got the old man with no ML experience.

It is SOOOOOO irrelevant what Wood and Peraza do from here on out. What matters was their trade value at the time of the trade - and we got terrible value.

Anyone who thought that Wood and Peraza would net ANY of those three not only has serious issues - they've got rosier Braves'-colored glasses than Shanks ever has.
 
Anyone who thought that Wood and Peraza would net ANY of those three not only has serious issues - they've got rosier Braves'-colored glasses than Shanks ever has.

Well... I just went through a few pages of that thread and the trade was almost universally hated except from the usual suspects
 
Next year I think our outfield will have both. I think we'll trade one of Olivera/Markakis for a catcher.

Frankly, I'm not convinced that trading both would net you a solid catcher, although if either would, I'd jump in with both feet.
 
You lost me at the signing of Strasburg, but I agree with the rest...assuming Teheran re-establishes his value and is sold high.

I'm not looking forward to the constant absurd scenarios where the Braves sign Strasburg though. He is a Boras client that will get $200M+ on the FA market. I can't even remember the last time the Braves signed a prominent Boras client, and the largest FA contract they have ever given out was about 1/3 of what Strasburg will ultimately command.

Strasburg to the Braves isn't happening, just like Matt Holliday, Jon Lester and David Price weren't happening. It didn't stop posters here from coming up with ludicrous scenarios involving home town discounts and major cost saving trades, but I wish folks would wake up and realize it simply isn't happening.

And I wish posters here would look at why some of these "ludicrous scenarios" actually are possible before speaking quite so soon (and taking such a negative stance - again without thinking it through before discounting it), but that ain't happening either.

Here's what we "know" from public statements made by the brass...

1.) We still have plenty of money to take on salary during the 2016 season. Based on Cot's numbers, payroll currently sits just shy of $92.1 million INCLUDING all potential performance bonuses (other than any difference in replacing Gant with Chacin on Tuesday and any bonuses Chacin's representatives may have been able to negotiate). That's counting every dime owed to Bourn, Swisher, Maybin, Bonifacio, and Toscano, as well as MLB salaries for Shae Simmons, Paco Rodriguez, and Andrew McKirahan even though insurance probably covers most of theirs'. If $110 million is indeed the max, Coppy & Company have left themselves roughly $18 million to add RPs, take on expiring bad contracts to "buy" more prospects, or deal for someone that could be considered a long-term "answer" if the opportunity happens to present itself. How much will they spend? Who knows? The point is that they've positioned themselves very well.

2.) Payroll IS going up - substantially if you believe the brass - January 1st. How much is substantially? Again, who knows? If it's 20%, you're looking at going from a $110 million payroll to more than a $130 million payroll.

3.) Clearing Johnson's salary from the 2017 books wasn't done without a reason behind it. The brass wanted to put themselves in a position to make at least 2 "splash signings" (or trades) around the time the new park opens. Most people around here typically wear blinders when they're looking at payroll. Not only do we have room to operate in 2016, we have LOADS of available space as soon as the curtain comes down on this season. That $92 million in September suddenly becomes $50.3 million in 2017 committed salaries. No, no one believes they're going to run out and spend $65-$80 million on a relatively weak free-agent class this winter. That said, IF they chose to spend $25 million on the biggest fish in the class there's still $40-$55 million to keep for extensions, arbitration raises and renewals, other acquisitions, etc.. I know some people around here love to ridicule Hart's "right Pitcher-wrong time" statement, but what evidence do they have that he was being untruthful? We would've wasted two years of control over Lester while they were trying to get all the other pieces in place. You don't waste your resources on an "Ace" until you've built a team around him where he can make that kind of difference. If they choose to hold onto both Ender and Mallex and are able to unload Markakis (as many hope), there's even more financial flexibility to utilize.

The point is - the money isn't going to be the issue for the first time in a LONG time. They now have the flexibility to add TWO elite salaries - and the available pieces in the system to do that through trade if it's not through free-agency.
 
Well... I just went through a few pages of that thread and the trade was almost universally hated except from the usual suspects

You needed to go back through that to figure out that that would've been the case??? Wow.
 
And I wish posters here would look at why some of these "ludicrous scenarios" actually are possible before speaking quite so soon (and taking such a negative stance - again without thinking it through before discounting it), but that ain't happening either.

Here's what we "know" from public statements made by the brass...

1.) We still have plenty of money to take on salary during the 2016 season. Based on Cot's numbers, payroll currently sits just shy of $92.1 million INCLUDING all potential performance bonuses (other than any difference in replacing Gant with Chacin on Tuesday and any bonuses Chacin's representatives may have been able to negotiate). That's counting every dime owed to Bourn, Swisher, Maybin, Bonifacio, and Toscano, as well as MLB salaries for Shae Simmons, Paco Rodriguez, and Andrew McKirahan even though insurance probably covers most of theirs'. If $110 million is indeed the max, Coppy & Company have left themselves roughly $18 million to add RPs, take on expiring bad contracts to "buy" more prospects, or deal for someone that could be considered a long-term "answer" if the opportunity happens to present itself. How much will they spend? Who knows? The point is that they've positioned themselves very well.

2.) Payroll IS going up - substantially if you believe the brass - January 1st. How much is substantially? Again, who knows? If it's 20%, you're looking at going from a $110 million payroll to more than a $130 million payroll.

3.) Clearing Johnson's salary from the 2017 books wasn't done without a reason behind it. The brass wanted to put themselves in a position to make at least 2 "splash signings" (or trades) around the time the new park opens. Most people around here typically wear blinders when they're looking at payroll. Not only do we have room to operate in 2016, we have LOADS of available space as soon as the curtain comes down on this season. That $92 million in September suddenly becomes $50.3 million in 2017 committed salaries. No, no one believes they're going to run out and spend $65-$80 million on a relatively weak free-agent class this winter. That said, IF they chose to spend $25 million on the biggest fish in the class there's still $40-$55 million to keep for extensions, arbitration raises and renewals, other acquisitions, etc.. I know some people around here love to ridicule Hart's "right Pitcher-wrong time" statement, but what evidence do they have that he was being untruthful? We would've wasted two years of control over Lester while they were trying to get all the other pieces in place. You don't waste your resources on an "Ace" until you've built a team around him where he can make that kind of difference. If they choose to hold onto both Ender and Mallex and are able to unload Markakis (as many hope), there's even more financial flexibility to utilize.

The point is - the money isn't going to be the issue for the first time in a LONG time. They now have the flexibility to add TWO elite salaries - and the available pieces in the system to do that through trade if it's not through free-agency.

I believe all this. I simply hope they are patient and use the money for the following FA class which is stacked in comparison.
 
And I wish posters here would look at why some of these "ludicrous scenarios" actually are possible before speaking quite so soon (and taking such a negative stance - again without thinking it through before discounting it), but that ain't happening either.

Here's what we "know" from public statements made by the brass...

1.) We still have plenty of money to take on salary during the 2016 season. Based on Cot's numbers, payroll currently sits just shy of $92.1 million INCLUDING all potential performance bonuses (other than any difference in replacing Gant with Chacin on Tuesday and any bonuses Chacin's representatives may have been able to negotiate). That's counting every dime owed to Bourn, Swisher, Maybin, Bonifacio, and Toscano, as well as MLB salaries for Shae Simmons, Paco Rodriguez, and Andrew McKirahan even though insurance probably covers most of theirs'. If $110 million is indeed the max, Coppy & Company have left themselves roughly $18 million to add RPs, take on expiring bad contracts to "buy" more prospects, or deal for someone that could be considered a long-term "answer" if the opportunity happens to present itself. How much will they spend? Who knows? The point is that they've positioned themselves very well.

2.) Payroll IS going up - substantially if you believe the brass - January 1st. How much is substantially? Again, who knows? If it's 20%, you're looking at going from a $110 million payroll to more than a $130 million payroll.

3.) Clearing Johnson's salary from the 2017 books wasn't done without a reason behind it. The brass wanted to put themselves in a position to make at least 2 "splash signings" (or trades) around the time the new park opens. Most people around here typically wear blinders when they're looking at payroll. Not only do we have room to operate in 2016, we have LOADS of available space as soon as the curtain comes down on this season. That $92 million in September suddenly becomes $50.3 million in 2017 committed salaries. No, no one believes they're going to run out and spend $65-$80 million on a relatively weak free-agent class this winter. That said, IF they chose to spend $25 million on the biggest fish in the class there's still $40-$55 million to keep for extensions, arbitration raises and renewals, other acquisitions, etc.. I know some people around here love to ridicule Hart's "right Pitcher-wrong time" statement, but what evidence do they have that he was being untruthful? We would've wasted two years of control over Lester while they were trying to get all the other pieces in place. You don't waste your resources on an "Ace" until you've built a team around him where he can make that kind of difference. If they choose to hold onto both Ender and Mallex and are able to unload Markakis (as many hope), there's even more financial flexibility to utilize.

The point is - the money isn't going to be the issue for the first time in a LONG time. They now have the flexibility to add TWO elite salaries - and the available pieces in the system to do that through trade if it's not through free-agency.

Seriously, just stop.

It's the same EVERY year with the rosterbation around here with guys the Braves have ZERO chance of signing. You (and several others) literally made the exact same type of numbered/bulleted list about why Holliday, Lester, Grienke, and Price were possibilities when they hit the FA market.

There was never a chance the Braves would sign any of them. Every rational poster around here stated there was never a chance the Braves would sign any of them. Posters like you insisted on scribing post after post with reasons why those signings could happen.

In the end, those signings never happened. None of them. Every single time. Just like every non-homer said from the start. In fact, the Braves were never even mentioned as being involved. The Braves are not going to sign a top of the market FA to a $200M+ contract.

Yet here we are, again...another elite FA and another endless string of unrealistic scenarios detailing how the Braves could sign them.

Cervelli is a realistic option. Beltre is a realistic option. A starter on a 2-3 year deal similar to Lackey's is a realistic option. The Braves are much more likely to trade for an Uggla, Hudson or Upton than they are to sign a Holliday, Price or Strasburg.
 
Nope. No chance.

You're right. If you guys throw around enough lines about "this offseason is different", or "Price loves the Braves", or "Grienke likes to scout minor leaguers so he will want to be a part of the Braves system", or "home town discount", or "so-and-so's wife loves the Altanta area"....the Braves will suddenly dish out $250M for Strasburg.

This offseason won't be any different, and guys will sign where they are given the best contract...just like Grienke and Price and Holliday before them.

And it won't be in Atlanta.
 
Didnt they hint at signing a big free agent pitcher when they said "right pitcher, wrong year" about Jon Lester? They reportedly made a big offer for Justin Upton this last offseason. I think its reasonable to expect one big signing in the next 2 years.
 
Didnt they hint at signing a big free agent pitcher when they said "right pitcher, wrong year" about Jon Lester? They reportedly made a big offer for Justin Upton this last offseason. I think its reasonable to expect one big signing in the next 2 years.

Yes they toyed with Upton, and here is the quote:

"No offer was made, but the conversations centered on a six-year contract that would have been for a significantly lower average annual value than Upton received in his six-year, $132.75 million deal with the Tigers, sources said."

So they didn't even bother to make an actual offer, and were only willing to go significantly less than $130M. That is a far cry from the $200M-$250M Strasburg is going to command. About half, actually.

So....yeah...let's just stop with the Strasburg fantasies, mmkay?
 
You're right. If you guys throw around enough lines about "this offseason is different", or "Price loves the Braves", or "Grienke likes to scout minor leaguers so he will want to be a part of the Braves system", or "home town discount", or "so-and-so's wife loves the Altanta area"....the Braves will suddenly dish out $250M for Strasburg.

This offseason won't be any different, and guys will sign where they are given the best contract...just like Grienke and Price and Holliday before them.

And it won't be in Atlanta.

always offended by discussion, this one.
 
I'm all for discussion, but I'd also like to see a measure of judgement and common sense exercised. The last time we were players at the top end of the FA market, we were also towards the top of the payroll list. Sure, we could shoehorn a guy like that into our budget, but it would seem to fly in the face of what we're doing to have one guy taking up that much payroll space.

So, sure . . . "top tier FA X to the Braves" is not impossible. Neither is it bloody likely.
 
I'm all for discussion, but I'd also like to see a measure of judgement and common sense exercised. The last time we were players at the top end of the FA market, we were also towards the top of the payroll list. Sure, we could shoehorn a guy like that into our budget, but it would seem to fly in the face of what we're doing to have one guy taking up that much payroll space..

So, sure . . . "top tier FA X to the Braves" is not impossible. Neither is it bloody likely.

The previous regime was singed by some pretty bad contracts: Lowe, Kawakami, Uggla, Melvin, CJ. I wonder if there is some lingering institutional memory that will make them less inclined to splash for big contracts even if the money is available. Maybe the strategy will be to spread the funds around rather than go for one or two big contracts.

Also I think there is something to be said for controlling risk by limiting years. One way to do this is bigger AAV but shorter deals. Another is to trade for a player on a big contract who only has 2-3 years left on the deal.

In the above, I'm talking about older players. Another way to avoid bad contracts to older players is to commit the funds to the younger guys that we already have. We have had good results with those kinds of deals: McCann, Kimbrel, Freeman, Teheran, Simmons. I would think Inciarte might be a logical candidate for something similar.
 
Yes they toyed with Upton, and here is the quote:

"No offer was made, but the conversations centered on a six-year contract that would have been for a significantly lower average annual value than Upton received in his six-year, $132.75 million deal with the Tigers, sources said."

So they didn't even bother to make an actual offer, and were only willing to go significantly less than $130M. That is a far cry from the $200M-$250M Strasburg is going to command. About half, actually.

So....yeah...let's just stop with the Strasburg fantasies, mmkay?

Plus there was probably a Justin Upton demand to remain teammates with his more talented brother.
 
always offended by discussion, this one.

Offended? No.

But let's at least intelligently discuss things that exist within the realm of reasonable plausibility. If you want intelligent discussion it requires intelligent assumptions...like the Braves won't be in the market for any $200M+ players.
 
The previous regime was singed by some pretty bad contracts: Lowe, Kawakami, Uggla, Melvin, CJ. I wonder if there is some lingering institutional memory that will make them less inclined to splash for big contracts even if the money is available. Maybe the strategy will be to spread the funds around rather than go for one or two big contracts.

Also I think there is something to be said for controlling risk by limiting years. One way to do this is bigger AAV but shorter deals. Another is to trade for a player on a big contract who only has 2-3 years left on the deal.

In the above, I'm talking about older players. Another way to avoid bad contracts to older players is to commit the funds to the younger guys that we already have. We have had good results with those kinds of deals: McCann, Kimbrel, Freeman, Teheran, Simmons. I would think Inciarte might be a logical candidate for something similar.

We're definitely going to have some money to spend in coming years. I agree that our history with the FA market recently is going to inform those decisions to a degree. I think that we're more likely to use that money to commit to younger guys already in the organization, and fill in with second tier free agents. I tend to doubt that will be the last team standing for a top echelon guy.
 
We're definitely going to have some money to spend in coming years. I agree that our history with the FA market recently is going to inform those decisions to a degree. I think that we're more likely to use that money to commit to younger guys already in the organization, and fill in with second tier free agents. I tend to doubt that will be the last team standing for a top echelon guy.

The other thing that will affect our appetite for first tier free agents is the potential loss of the draft pick. I think our FO values it a bit more than most.

This off-season I see us spreading money pretty evenly over the following needs: catcher, proven veteran reliever, two infielders. Not all will be free agent signings. But the average AAV of those four acquisitions could be in the 10-15M range. Which would bring the overall annual cost about $50M.
 
Offended? No.

But let's at least intelligently discuss things that exist within the realm of reasonable plausibility. If you want intelligent discussion it requires intelligent assumptions...like the Braves won't be in the market for any $200M+ players.

See - right there's the problem. Since the thought doesn't fit with your thoughts, you choose to turn it into something personal and think you've made hay by insulting my intelligence. I defy you to find ONE place where I'm wrong about the finances available - ONE.

You can disagree with the opinion that they're going to sign or trade for at least one big name, high-salary player to go along with the new stadium (whether this winter or next). That's perfectly fine - your OPINION differs from the one that several others including myself have. Since you don't know me from Adam, it'd likely be much less embarassing to simply do that instead of questioning my intelligence. Whether you personally like my opinions or not, I can assure you that my intelligence is at the very least comparable to the vast majority of posters here.
 
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