We have one of the worst MLB teams right now

Forever Fredi said:
If Fredi had this roster compared to the crappy one he was gifted with to start last year, he may have gotten more out of it. We might be in contention for a playoff spot.
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Well, if Fredi was still here we'd probably still have McDowell, so you might be onto something.

Off topic, but I think people forget about how that whole firing of Fredi thing went down when they act like our FO is infallible.
 
Playoffs in 2018 is a pipedream.

Not going anywhere with this pitching. And tough to make improvements on offense with the suck of Kemp and Markakis taking up 25% of the payroll
 
CyYoung31 said:
Well, if Fredi was still here we'd probably still have McDowell, so you might be onto something.

Off topic, but I think people forget about how that whole firing of Fredi thing went down when they act like our FO is infallible.
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We need to be careful about this kind of statement. I suspect there is not one person here, even thethe and clvclv, who thinks the FO is infallible. We love to talk in extremes.

We either criticize every move they make... or we think they are infallible. Reality is somewhere in between. They are not idiots, they have a rationale for the moves they make even if we don't know what it is. They have clearly made some gamble type moves that have not paid off, and some that have. Some on the board seem to see only their mistakes, while others focus on their successes. Neither view truly reflects reality.

Sorry for the rant. The infallible statement kind of caught my attention.
 
mfree80 said:
We need to be careful about this kind of statement. I suspect there is not one person here, even thethe and clvclv, who thinks the FO is infallible. We love to talk in extremes.
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Lol, then you haven't paid attention to either one of their posts.
 
mfree80 said:
We need to be careful about this kind of statement. I suspect there is not one person here, even thethe and clvclv, who thinks the FO is infallible. We love to talk in extremes.

We either criticize every move they make... or we think they are infallible. Reality is somewhere in between. They are not idiots, they have a rationale for the moves they make even if we don't know what it is. They have clearly made some gamble type moves that have not paid off, and some that have. Some on the board seem to see only their mistakes, while others focus on their successes. Neither view truly reflects reality.

Sorry for the rant. The infallible statement kind of caught my attention.
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I've been very critical of the FO, no question. But, I will give credit where due, when due. The return for Shelby Miller was awesome. Bravo. The way they've mostly bungled the return thy got back has not been awesome.

Of course they have been good and bad. But, step back and look at the complete tapestry that they are weaving and tell me that there has been more good than bad.

To me, what they have been best at so far has been drafting and signing young International FA. And at least some of that is a function of position directly related to how bad the ML team has been which in turn is directly related to how bad the FO has been at fielding a competitive ML team.

I wouldn't hold the awfulness of the ML product against them if they were truly rebuilding. But, that's not what they have been doing. They've been truly trying to field a competitive team at the ML level and failing miserably at it.

The talent that they have received back in the divestiture of ML assets has been mostly limited in value. I think some of that comes from the desire to reload which led to the ask of "near ready" minor league players. And some of it was failed gambles. But, you don't get a pass when you place a bet and it goes wrong.
 
mfree80 said:
We need to be careful about this kind of statement. I suspect there is not one person here, even thethe and clvclv, who thinks the FO is infallible. We love to talk in extremes.
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They have never criticized the front office that I can remember, only after the GM leaves (like Wren) have I seen them criticize really. Hell, thethe defended the Olivera trade endlessly before he disappeared from the board for his hiatus. Not that I think they truly think the FO is infallible, they just post like it. Perhaps better phrasing would be to say that some of the pozzy group act like they have to defend the FO at all costs, no matter what they do. Which comes off as acting like our FO is infallible when you can't allow yourself to criticize them.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I've been very critical of the FO, no question. But, I will give credit where due, when due. The return for Shelby Miller was awesome. Bravo. The way they've mostly bungled the return thy got back has not been awesome.

Of course they have been good and bad. But, step back and look at the complete tapestry that they are weaving and tell me that there has been more good than bad.

To me, what they have been best at so far has been drafting and signing young International FA. And at least some of that is a function of position directly related to how bad the ML team has been which in turn is directly related to how bad the FO has been at fielding a competitive ML team.

I wouldn't hold the awfulness of the ML product against them if they were truly rebuilding. But, that's not what they have been doing. They've been truly trying to field a competitive team at the ML level and failing miserably at it.

The talent that they have received back in the divestiture of ML assets has been mostly limited in value. I think some of that comes from the desire to reload which led to the ask of "near ready" minor league players. And some of it was failed gambles. But, you don't get a pass when you place a bet and it goes wrong.
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I would say they have been trying to field a respectable MLB Team that is not an embarrassment to the game. I think they have succeeded in generating a little excitement, but they have not tried to field a team that is anything beyond respectable. Hence trades like Garcia at the deadline.

A quick look at the minor league system says there has been more good than bad.

My we are an impatient bunch.
 
mfree80 said:
I would say they have been trying to field a respectable MLB Team that is not an embarrassment to the game. I think they have succeeded in generating a little excitement, but they have not tried to field a team that is anything beyond respectable. Hence trades like Garcia at the deadline.

A quick look at the minor league system says there has been more good than bad.

My we are an impatient bunch.
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Right. They have done nothing to go all in on 2017.

They probably won't on 2018 either.
 
mfree80 said:
I would say they have been trying to field a respectable MLB Team that is not an embarrassment to the game. I think they have succeeded in generating a little excitement, but they have not tried to field a team that is anything beyond respectable. Hence trades like Garcia at the deadline.

A quick look at the minor league system says there has been more good than bad.

My we are an impatient bunch.
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What part of being a bottom 5 team respectable?

If your sole defense of this FO doing a good job is the fact they have the #1 farm system after 3 years of rebuilding...well...I'm pretty sure any professional sports GM could accomplish that if given several seasons of Kimbrel, Simmons, JUp, Heyward and Gattis to deal.

The bad moves far outweigh the good moves, and it isn't particularly close.

Hell, it isn't even the individual moves that shows they are bad. If a team trades a MLB player for prospects, and none of those prospects pan out, I can't assign much blame to the FO...prospects are risky.

The Braves have 10 of the Top 100 prospects, but they should have 12+ of the Top 100.

When the FO consistently uses resources to "win now" rather than adding future assets, and then only wins 68 games...how can anyone call that anything other than a complete and utter failure?

When the FO consistently wastes value of extremely valuable players like Teheran, Swanson and Albies (and soon Acuna), what else is that other than complete and utter incompetence?
 
PurpleBrave said:
Start the season over and This team would lose 100 easily. I'm struggling to see improvement. Our milb guys are rushed, then look terrible when they are called up. ive been posi-brave through the rebuild, but like natural erosion the positivity is weathering away
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Good!! We still need all the high end talent we can get. We rushed the rebuild and brought in vets. Most of the MLB ready talent from trades either bombed or are just now beginning to contribute. Next year is really the first year we should see "some" fruits of the rebuild. I expect us to be somewhat better next year. This year was ALWAYS about smoke and mirrors because of the new ballpark. Anyone that really thought we were contenders were just smoking the fan pipe lol. 2019 was really always the target date to compete...the Braves just wouldn't admit it.
 
Chico said:
I'm still not understanding all the "rushing the rebuild" comments.
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I think people felt the FO kept overselling 2017 as being the year we'd compete because of the new stadium and wanting people to fill the seats. Many feel that was the reason we rushed Dansby and when he struggled this year we sent him to AAA to work on some things and he looks to have somewhat improved after his AAA stint.
 
Forever Fredi said:
I think people felt the FO kept overselling 2017 as being the year we'd compete because of the new stadium and wanting people to fill the seats. Many feel that was the reason we rushed Dansby and when he struggled this year we sent him to AAA to work on some things and he looks to have somewhat improved after his AAA stint.
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Of course they're gonna oversell it. It's a new stadium with a cash cow connected to it. Yes, promoting Dansby early was a bone thrown to fans to sell more jerseys and tickets. That's business.

It just seems "rushing the rebuild" is the rallying cry.

We didn't trade top prospects or sign long term free agent contracts. That's what I would consider rushing the rebuild.
 
The thought of this team winning 85 games is and always was a thethe level pipedream. They just aren't anywhere close to it and 2-3 tweaks/roster improvements aren't making up that difference in 1 year unless we somehow acquire Harper, Trout, and Kershaw.

Maintain the status quo and develop guys. Hopefully win 5-10 more games in 18 than we will in 17. If by then we are projected at within 5-10 games of reasonably discussing playoffs, look to free agency.
 
gilesfan said:
The thought of this team winning 85 games is and always was a thethe level pipedream. They just aren't anywhere close to it and 2-3 tweaks/roster improvements aren't making up that difference in 1 year unless we somehow acquire Harper, Trout, and Kershaw.

Maintain the status quo and develop guys. Hopefully win 5-10 more games in 18 than we will in 17. If by then we are projected at within 5-10 games of reasonably discussing playoffs, look to free agency.
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They would need to sign three quality pitchers.
 
Chico said:
Of course they're gonna oversell it. It's a new stadium with a cash cow connected to it. Yes, promoting Dansby early was a bone thrown to fans to sell more jerseys and tickets. That's business.
It just seems "rushing the rebuild" is the rallying cry.

We didn't trade top prospects or sign long term free agent contracts. That's what I would consider rushing the rebuild.
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What do you call the Kemp contract? What about the Markakis contract? How about taking a lesser return for Kimbrel so there was freed up money for 2017? The HO trade? All done to win more games in 2015-2017...and how did that turn out?

The Braves are rebuilding and should be relying on young players, and yet they have gotten the least amount of production in baseball from rookie level players, and 2nd to last from players in their 1st-3rd seasons since 2015:

https://www.talkingchop.com/2017/8/21/16177468/atlanta-braves-rookie-young-player-struggles

How anyone can see the results the Braves have gotten from young players and not be a little unsettled is a sure sign of just how blindingly pozzy they are.
 
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