West Virginia
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
57Brave
Well-known member
I don't consider teachers "government"
I see government as the entity that fills the potholes and maintains the stoplights and traffic signs.
That delivered my Amazon package yesterday
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But that is a side discussion and muddies the waters of how (R) has crippled the education system in our country.
From K through PHD
and how the teachers are fighting back
sturg33
I
Do you ever say anything that is right?
1. Public ducation is provided by the government
2. (R) hasn't crippled anything... though I do wish they would as we have certainly gotten dumber since the government decided to take a huge role in education... But let's look at actual data, shall we?
Please tell me more what (R) has done to cripple things.
Oh wait, this is where you disappear and change the subject in a few days
It's as if he's shocked that there are holes in AM radio talking points.
57Brave
Well-known member
This is where i disappear or show a chart from a think tank that supports my belief.
and we go round and round
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For kicks and giggles, when the rubber meets the road, what is your preferred alternative to public education ?
and who administers the day to day ?
or this is where you disappear and change the subject in a few days
and we go round and round
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For kicks and giggles, when the rubber meets the road, what is your preferred alternative to public education ?
and who administers the day to day ?
or this is where you disappear and change the subject in a few days
57Brave
Well-known member
but please, your alternative ?
sturg33
I
happy to. After you tell me how (R) has crippled education spending. i don't want anecdotal stories of emotion. Show me why, in data. It should be easy to prove, as "crippling" isn't a blip
Don't let this be another "middle class has been wiped by the GOP" moment for you.
This is your chance to prove you're not a constant purveyor of fake news
57Brave
Well-known member
we are supported by ideologically competing think tanks -- my think tank can beat up your think tank ?
I tried to avoid mocking John Locke org. as a source It is a Libertarian think tank that promotes Libertarian causes -- in this case defunding public education.
here, pick one
https://www.google.com/search?clien...13i5i30k1j0i8i13i30k1j0i13i30k1.0.M-GsZUF66FU
and here, pick a nuther
https://www.google.com/search?clien....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.136....0.d6hT4u4Xegk
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I really see no sense of another endless back and forth of think tank charts and graphs that make a fair to say biased argument.
Sturg showed one good for him. I will think about it the next time I see teachers striking
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so round and round we go, alternatives ??
I tried to avoid mocking John Locke org. as a source It is a Libertarian think tank that promotes Libertarian causes -- in this case defunding public education.
here, pick one
https://www.google.com/search?clien...13i5i30k1j0i8i13i30k1j0i13i30k1.0.M-GsZUF66FU
and here, pick a nuther
https://www.google.com/search?clien....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.136....0.d6hT4u4Xegk
..................................................................................................................................
I really see no sense of another endless back and forth of think tank charts and graphs that make a fair to say biased argument.
Sturg showed one good for him. I will think about it the next time I see teachers striking
.....................
so round and round we go, alternatives ??
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
It doesn't affect me at all. I got the hell out of teaching in OK as fast as I could. I currently have 7 jobs, 1 full time at a local community college and 6 part time online teaching jobs. OK taxes the hell out of me for "state income tax" yet NONE of my jobs are in OK or online via OK schools. Those who say our educational system is broken are right, though that's only one angle of the problem. Most of the teachers I know or used to know left teaching entirely or left the state of OK because literally everybody pays better.
If you want to find out why the costs have gone up so much you could check out these links (keep in mind these aren't the assistant principals or assistant superintendents, or athletic directors, or coach only coaches (little or no teaching duty), technology folks, and so on):
http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/03/06/school-superintendent-salaries/
http://www.sde.ok.gov/sde/sites/ok.gov.sde/files/documents/files/FY15%20FEB%20Prin%20.pdf
http://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahomas-schools-get-billions-to-spend-where-does-the-money-go
http://oklahomawatch.org/2014/06/28/is-oklahoma-spending-too-much-on-school-administration/http://oklahomawatch.org/2014/06/28/is-oklahoma-spending-too-much-on-school-administration/
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/
Our educational system is broken because teachers aren't (or at least weren't when I was in it) to really teach, it was always more about keeping the kids busy, keeping the kids relatively happy, the parents relatively happy, and keeping the administrators relatively happy. About 90% of your discipline is based on the "bluff" factor. If you try to punish little Johnny when he's being a little **** he goes home and gets mommy and daddy to come up there and chew on that administrator and tell him to "get that teacher in line" and they will since they want to keep their jobs.
Therefore there isn't much in the way of discipline in the public schools so therefore there isn't that much learning going on. I know of several schools in AR where they literally aren't allow go give any student a grade lower than a C, regardless of their effort levels and quality of work. Imagine what that does to the effort levels. This is why nearly half of our students can't write a sentence or do simple math when they get here, and we have to put them into remedial courses before they can actually begin their real education.
As for the 32 weeks thing, I don't know where that came from. We have 4 9-week terms which equals 36 weeks, at least 1 week before the semester starts and after the semester ends, teacher's meetings, parent-teacher conferences, in service, professional development, and most places they push you to get certified in other things or work on your masters during the Summer, and that's not counting all the "extra duties" playground duty, working at ball games, hall duty, and all the other stuff. And I don't know how many "free periods" thethe's brother got, but I got one a day, which was just barely enough to make copies and prepare for that day's classes, let alone grade anything from the previous one. Also, what kind of class sizes did he have? I always had from 140-160 total students, sometimes even more.
I will challenge anybody who is so sure of how little teachers do in an average school day or school year to try it; go through all the education stuff, subject matter stuff, student teaching, probationary period, boat loads of certification tests, licensure process just to become a teacher, then look for a job, then when you finally find one you go into the classroom where the kids don't just think they have at least as much power as you, the know it, then try to teach them enough to really make them better. Sure most of them will go along with you teaching them a little, they expect that, but anything above and beyond the bare minimum, forget it and when they misbehave try to punish them. I realize not every schools system is like this, some are actually dedicated to quality, but it isn't as many as you think.
Bottom line, because teachers typically belong to unions, they are judged by the anti-union sentiment of just about everybody in power in a red state. They are thought to block vote Democratic so they're on the **** list of talk radio on down. The truth of the matter is, very few of the teachers I used to work with would vote for Dems, typically because of the moral issues. So, they would almost all vote for Repubs even knowing the Repubs were going to think of them as **** and treat them like **** every opportunity they got. If teachers were perceived to block vote Repub, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
So, Steak Sauce my friend, are you sorry you asked yet?
57Brave
Well-known member
57Brave
Well-known member
sturg33
I
Have you shifted your argument from "Republicans have crippled the education system" to "teachers are underpaid?"(which I'm sure you also blame Republicans for)
Because, you're still wrong
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...cher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/
Because, you're still wrong
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...cher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/
Oklahomahawk
Boras' Client
sturg or one of our other money guys, can you explain to me what all goes into these "median salary chart thingies" and yes I know what median is. I've been teaching for 25 years now (as of next month) and I just now make about the amount listed there as "median". Somebody help me out here. Are these just teacher's salaries, or teacher's salaries plus some creative combination of salaries + benefits, or teacher's salaries plus those of administrators, etc.?