Westminster Bridge Attack

I remember Sept 12-13, 2001 and the rush to judgement that had Sadamm Hussein perptrating the 9/11 attacks

Woody Guthrie wrote:

Through this life you travel
You'll meet some funny men
Some will rob you
with a 6 gun
some with a fountain pen

Of course we stay vigilant to threats be they domestic , foreign religious military dogmatic.
Consider this:

https://www.quora.com/Are-we-currently-living-in-the-most-peaceful-time-of-human-history

" A short investigation into world history will confirm this. "
 
50PoundHead said:
There is a difference between ignoring something and making ill-conceived blanket statements about something. Sh*t happens in the world. As for the Titanic, what's that got to do with this? I don't see the entirety of Western Civilization sailing blindly toward an iceberg and if it is, we've done that to ourselves, not by ignoring Islam, but by being distracted by shiny objects that have allowed the West to rot at its core. As a Scandinavian, I'm supposed to be the pessimistic Bergmanesque one of the bunch. Glad to see I'm not.
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But isn't saying "**** happens in the world" a perfect example of an "ill-conceived blanket statement"?

Yesterday you were preaching that people needed to "keep it together" every time there was an attack, which is fine - I agree that a measured response is far more effective than a half-baked one spawned in a frenzy. At the same time, though, it seems a kind of willful ignorance to proceed on without acknowledging that there very much is a significant problem with radical Islam in Europe. As to how, or even if, that will transpose itself onto America is the crux of our national debate, but at some point we've all got to admit that (Western) Europe is at DEFCON 2.
 
Yeah, you are probably right.

DEFCON 2 should have been in quotation marks

and tell me again how swimmingly the Trump Administration and the Paul Ryan House is functioning
 
Hawk said:
But isn't saying "**** happens in the world" a perfect example of an "ill-conceived blanket statement"?

Yesterday you were preaching that people needed to "keep it together" every time there was an attack, which is fine - I agree that a measured response is far more effective than a half-baked one spawned in a frenzy. At the same time, though, it seems a kind of willful ignorance to proceed on without acknowledging that there very much is a significant problem with radical Islam in Europe. As to how, or even if, that will transpose itself onto America is the crux of our national debate, but at some point we've all got to admit that (Western) Europe is at DEFCON 2.
Click to expand...

You're right. My statement was just as much a blanket statement as thethe's, but I don't think it's as equally ill-conceived. We tend to have this image of ourselves that life can somehow be contained, but it can't. We can institute a "1984-ish" era of total state control and shut down the internet and all sorts of things, but how much freedom are we willing to sacrifice to improve security? Look at all the barking about something as innocuous as security checks at airports.

We certainly have to stay vigilant. I just look back at history and marvel at how ignorant we are of the terrible things that have happened throughout history as we try to depict the current age as something totally foreign to the history of mankind. The fact that an increasing number of these terrorists are home grown should say something about the environments in which they have grown up, but so many seem to say "It's Islam!" There is no excuse for these violent acts, but there's no excuse for other violent acts either.

Also, read Steven Pinker's The Better Nature of our Angels: Why Violence Has Declined. The pessimism of the modern age is what has become frightening to me.
 
57Brave said:
I remember Sept 12-13, 2001 and the rush to judgement that had Sadamm Hussein perptrating the 9/11 attacks


Woody Guthrie wrote:

Through this life you travel
You'll meet some funny men
Some will rob you
with a 6 gun
some with a fountain pen

Of course we stay vigilant to threats be they domestic , foreign religious military dogmatic.
Consider this:

https://www.quora.com/Are-we-currently-living-in-the-most-peaceful-time-of-human-history

" A short investigation into world history will confirm this. "
Click to expand...

The immediate reaction to the Oklahoma City bombing was also all about Hussein (who was truly a lousy human being).

On the other hand, I can remember some talking head after the Boston Marathon bombing postulating with relative certainty that the Boston Marathon bombing was committed by right wing anti-tax types.

PS--People need to listen to those Woody Guthrie lines a lot more.
 
There's an easy solution that will joy sitbwell with a lot of people and that starts with removing migrants from Europe.
 
50PoundHead said:
The immediate reaction to the Oklahoma City bombing was also all about Hussein (who was truly a lousy human being).

On the other hand, I can remember some talking head after the Boston Marathon bombing postulating with relative certainty that the Boston Marathon bombing was committed by right wing anti-tax types.

PS--People need to listen to those Woody Guthrie lines a lot more.
Click to expand...

Woody Guthrie was an Okie you know. ;) As was Will Rogers.
 
An overview of the Pinker book suggested by 50 talks of the reasons for violence.
One was revenge.
How much of the Islamic violence we see is based on generations of revenge?

Lord knows we , western civilization (oxymoron) through colonization and exploitation , have certainly made a case for revenge for a great deal of the earths population.
Sub Saharin Africans, Northern Africans,Asians, Native Americans (including indigenous Central and South American) .
Just recently even Australian indigenous peoples
Not to mention inter European rivalries dating back some to the 5th 6th and 7th centuries.
It could be argued and convincingly that European culture nurtures and perpetrates violence

We can't un do those seeds.
My question --
why pile on?

In the past year we have violated Lakota Treaties over a pipeline. Actually unilaterally rerouted the pipeline so's not to disturb suburban sprawl.
So why condemn an entire religion (race? ) over a very predictable reaction to Western Imperialism.
a very short sighted approach
...................

To put yesterdas tragedy and the accompanying over reaction/rush to judgement in perspective:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/nyregion/manhattan-nyc-james-harris-jackson-hate-crime.html?_r=0

an how many Muslim terrorist attacks in the Western Hemisphere ?
 
Hawk said:
But isn't saying "**** happens in the world" a perfect example of an "ill-conceived blanket statement"?

Yesterday you were preaching that people needed to "keep it together" every time there was an attack, which is fine - I agree that a measured response is far more effective than a half-baked one spawned in a frenzy. At the same time, though, it seems a kind of willful ignorance to proceed on without acknowledging that there very much is a significant problem with radical Islam in Europe. As to how, or even if, that will transpose itself onto America is the crux of our national debate, but at some point we've all got to admit that (Western) Europe is at DEFCON 2.
Click to expand...

So now I am willfully ignorant. Thanks. I always appreciate an ad hominem. I'll remember that.
 
50PoundHead said:
So now I am willfully ignorant. Thanks. I always appreciate an ad hominem. I'll remember that.
Click to expand...

I intended for that particular comment to be considered in the abstract, but seeing as it came on the heels of a recollection directed at you I can see how it blends. Sorry.

My point was that both common approaches to the issue, be it the crazy 'ban Islam' types or the 'this is the new normal' types, are each ignorant of the realities which cloud their position.
 
The response of Americans to terror is to be terrified — 9/11’s trauma has never been fully exorcised. Until we get over that, until we manage to stiffen our upper lips like the Brits, jihadist terrorists will exercise control over the American psyche like no one else. We can do better, can’t we? If we want the Constitution to survive both Islamism’s threat and the potential response of a beleaguered Trump, we’ll have to.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...cal-gravity-finally-sinking-donald-trump.html
 
Came across this quote from Winston Churchill from 1899:

“Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”

Further:
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog,’”

Just wanted to post these to combat the idea that radical Islam was essentially created by Western civilization.
 
how many people have Islamic terrorists killed this year in the US? How many people have been killed by cops this year so far? 1000 times more likely to die from a cop who wet his pants than an Islamic terrorist.
 
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