What a Reconstructed Pen Might Look Like

Eyeman said:
Don't forget Teheran possibly gets sent to the pen.

It's a shame to have to put Newk in the pen. Wright needs to work on some things. I definitely think Touki and Wilson would instantly be great pen pieces if we start using them there. I sort of always felt Weigel was destined for the pen. Same with Muller. Allard maybe can throw harder if it's just for a batter or two.

So we just need to hold out for a month to get Kimbrell and then Weigel, Muller, etc.
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someday some of these guys might pan out as relievers...but I would not lean on them heavily in 2019
 
nsacpi said:
I'm as much of a prospect hoarder and value trader as anyone, and would give the prospect cost a fair amount of weight in deciding which deals to make to upgrade the pen. There are ways to do this without giving up much in the way of prospects. Getting Kimbrel is obviously one way. Another is acquiring someone who is a rental, as we did with Brad Brach last year. Will Smith for example is going to be a free agent. The third possibility is to get someone with the kind of contract that eats up any surplus value. Here I have in mind Ian Kennedy, who seems to be on his way to making a very successful transition to the pen. If we took on most of his contract, we wouldn't have to give up much in the way of prospects.
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Still think San Francisco could line up as a "one-stop shop" for both sides - Smith as the LH (pure rental) and Melancon as the guy with no surplus value. If they want a prospect of much consequence, they have to eat a chunk of Melancon's $$$.
 
Enscheff said:
Simply pushing Newk, Wilson and Touki to the BP, and acquiring 1 of the Giants LHP is a much more realistic route for an organization brimming with talented arms.
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We just saw another step in this process take place when Newk came out of the BP following a RHP and was exactly what folks hoped he would be.

When a team like the Dodgers stacks a lineup with LHH to face a RHP like Gausman, bringing in a LHP like Newk for an extended outing is very effective.
 
Enscheff said:
We just saw another step in this process take place when Newk came out of the BP following a RHP and was exactly what folks hoped he would be.

When a team like the Dodgers stacks a lineup with LHH to face a RHP like Gausman, bringing in a LHP like Newk for an extended outing is very effective.
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That would be awesome. Soroka game 1 starter. Then announce Gaus as game 2 starter and when they stack lefties, pull him before he throws a pitch for Fried.
 
With the way Minter is going, I assume there will be a couple short term moves. One is activating Venters, who has pitched well in his rehab stint. Another might be giving some high leverage opportunities to Newk. Let's see what happens. Ultimately, we will still have to make multiple external moves imo.
 
nsacpi said:
With the way Minter is going, I assume there will be a couple short term moves. One is activating Venters, who has pitched well in his rehab stint. Another might be giving some high leverage opportunities to Newk. Let's see what happens. Ultimately, we will still have to make multiple external moves imo.
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And whether it looks like "panicking" or not, at least one of those external moves needs to come soon. As mentioned in the other thread, that's 7 blown out of 13 chances. Venters isn't a 9th inning option. Neither is Biddle. I'm not ready to buy into the idea that Newk's fixed his control to the point that he'll ever throw enough strikes to be trusted with the last 3 outs. Maybe you try him there once and see what happens, but I'm still skeptical.

AA simply can't continue running complete question marks out there to try to get the last 3 outs until they can sign Kimbrel without losing the pick. Go get Smith. Go get Melancon. Anyone who's at least had periods of late-inning success until you can potentially bring Craig in. We're 4 games back already - if you wait three more weeks to do SOMETHING, you're giving the Phillies the chance to run away and hide. They'll eventually get a better Robertson back, Nola's not going to continue to be bad, and they could easily add Keuchel at the same time AA possibly adds Kimbrel.

They just can't go three more weeks without addressing things.
 
Melancon? Don't think so.

The four I would focus on at this point: Ken Giles, Mychal Givens, Ian Kennedy and Will Smith.
 
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nsacpi said:
Melancon? Don't think so.

The four I would focus on at this point: Ken Giles, Mychal Givens, Ian Kennedy and Will Smith.
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Not sure I'd want any part of Giles - just too long a history of meltdowns for my liking. Smith and Givens would be the ideal pair for me from those 5, but obviously will require the highest return as well.
 
clvclv said:
Not sure I'd want any part of Giles - just too long a history of meltdowns for my liking. Smith and Givens would be the ideal pair for me from those 5, but obviously will require the highest return as well.
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Giles much better than Melancon.

Smith won't cost much since he is a rental who will be a FA.
 
Enscheff said:
We just saw another step in this process take place when Newk came out of the BP following a RHP and was exactly what folks hoped he would be.

When a team like the Dodgers stacks a lineup with LHH to face a RHP like Gausman, bringing in a LHP like Newk for an extended outing is very effective.
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Newk again showed what the revamped BP might start looking like with internal options. If Minter can get himself figured out, that's a strong LH duo in the BP.

Rather than giving Newk one shot in the 9th and then making a ridiculous snap judgement based on almost zero data, he needs to be inserted into higher and higher leverage situations where he is likely to succeed based on match ups so he can build up to being the high leverage BP weapon he was destined to be from the start.

This idea that some guys can pitch the 9th and some can't needs to go away once and for all, and the idea of leverage needs to be adopted organizationally. If all leadership starts talking about the "BP Ace" being used in the "highest leverage point of the game", the players will start to buy in.
 
some not so fun stats about Braves pitching---

David O'Brien
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#Braves relievers have issued majors-high 82 walks in 139 1/3 innings and have the majors' 4th-highest opponents' OBP (.353) and fifth-worst save percentage (53.8).


David O'Brien
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3h3 hours ago
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#Braves pitchers have issued a majors-high 162 walks, while no other NL team has issued more than 143. (White Sox and Rangers have 151.)
 
nsacpi said:
Giles much better than Melancon.

Smith won't cost much since he is a rental who will be a FA.
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Given the sad state of bullpens today - particularly in this division - it's pretty tough to say convincingly that Smith "won't cost much".

Giles' stuff is great, sure, but he has consistently imploded when given high-leverage opportunities with contenders. They'll want more than he's worth to me. I'd rather try the young SPs that don't currently figure into our rotation plans than give up much of anything for him. I only mention Melancon because of his experience, the fact that he's pitching well, and that there's no way he costs you much. You can say the same regarding Kennedy, but he just doesn't have the same track-record in the late innings. Givens is another story for me.

If you could add Smith and Givens now and Kimbrel in three weeks, you've suddenly got the makings of a lockdown pen - especially if Newk can adjust and Minter can get his *hit together. Adding Touki and Wilson to that mix coming down the stretch might make it "special".
 
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