I agree their value is close in general, but I feel teams would value Gray much higher given the going rate for controllable TOR young pitchers. But the main issue is that if the A's are trading Gray, they are more likely to target multiple top prospects rather than a lite hitting, great defensive OFer.
What is Inciarte worth? And is he worth keeping?
- Thread starter rico43
- Start date
I agree their value is close in general, but I feel teams would value Gray much higher given the going rate for controllable TOR young pitchers. But the main issue is that if the A's are trading Gray, they are more likely to target multiple top prospects rather than a lite hitting, great defensive OFer.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I wouldn't actively shop him. But someone needs to go from the OF. Right now we have 4 guys who're in the mix to start. Olivera, Markakis, Inciarte and Mallex. And of course roster space wasters Swisher and Bourn. Smith doesn't have to be named to the roster as I recall he should still have an option, so it's not really a rush to get him up. BUT it doesn't make sense to have a long term log jam as Inciarte, Markakis and Olivera are all under contract for 3+ years.
So what do we do, we have to trade one of them, it won't be Olivera, so it comes down to Mallex, Inciarte, and Markakis. I would trade Markakis myself. To me he makes the most sense to get rid of. We won't get much return. But the return for him is basically the right to play our younger players. And maybe to try to showcase Swisher for a month to hopefully get someone to trade for him.
Nothing wrong with having those four to begin the season, but with Mallex still in AAA. There's also the possibility of Olivera at 2B or 3B. You've just got to play it out for a while. It's not a decision that needs to be made early, even if you're trying to complete this year. I know most people have completely punted that, but I'd like to see an effort to compete, as long as it doesn't jeopardize the future.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
To me we need to get rid of Markakis the second we can. We can reinvest his money short term. But we don't want to (IMO) run th erisk of Markakis's value tanking .Projections on him early are predicting a steep drop. They expect his walk rate to drop, K rate to stay steady, power to go up slightly, BABIP to drop a lot, and all that put together make him a pretty weak candidate. If he does that and we're still holding onto him, no way do we get rid of him and not eat half or more of his contract. He'll become a new Chris Johnson fast. I still think we have to eat some money to trade him now, but if say Baltimore would bring him back and send us a project arm, we should do it.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Inciarte is a very good defender at all three OF positions. He is basically Heyward defensively without bringing as much pop in his bat, while having the ability to hit .300 and steal some bases. There is a lot of value in that and great defense can help a lot in winning a WS (KC has showed that in making two straight and winning the last World Series). So unless a team really overpays a la the Miller trade (unlikely since Arizona is not involved and since the most likely team interested is the Cubs), then I wouldn't deal him at all. He isn't making much for a while and isn't a free agent for 5 years. I'd keep him--which probably means he's gone and gone to the Cubs for a package I like less.
BTW, I haven't posted here at all since the Simmons trade, but I still occasionally read this board and obviously still thank some posts too. I hated the Simmons trade and what Coppy said about it and Simmons, etc. That said, no one can argue that the Braves got a lot in the Miller trade. I was among those against trading Miller and really like him but Arizona just flat out overpaid for him so no one can argue with it. Plus after the other trades before hand it makes sense to trade anyone if another team overpays for them.
Lastly, Markakis should be the one traded next but he probably won't be IMO.
PS: I was right about Bethancourt being as good as gone...
BTW, I haven't posted here at all since the Simmons trade, but I still occasionally read this board and obviously still thank some posts too. I hated the Simmons trade and what Coppy said about it and Simmons, etc. That said, no one can argue that the Braves got a lot in the Miller trade. I was among those against trading Miller and really like him but Arizona just flat out overpaid for him so no one can argue with it. Plus after the other trades before hand it makes sense to trade anyone if another team overpays for them.
Lastly, Markakis should be the one traded next but he probably won't be IMO.
PS: I was right about Bethancourt being as good as gone...
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Everyone thought Bethancourt was gone... And the Simmons trade was great.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
If so, I am not sure who those people were in the minor league threads I was responding to.
I am not surprised you think so...
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
In what world does it make sense to trade an ace pitcher away and then try and trade away the main piece in that deal that you received.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I'm pretty sure Swanson was the biggest part of the return.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
That's true, but the other two players in the deal are very good parts to it too and all three together made it a great trade.
PS: What is surprising to me is that Arizona gave up so much after turning down this offer: "@Ken_Rosenthal #Braves came back with Miller and Arodys Vizcaino for Pollock and Aaron Blair. AZ again said no." Arizona clearly is going all-in now and was willing to give up even more just to keep Pollock. I'll take keeping Viz and getting Inciarte and Swanson any day over Pollock!
zbhargrove
Well-known member
If you got someone to overpay... it makes quite a bit of sense as Inciarte's value is likely never higher... and Shelby is not an ace.
And Inciarte was in no way the main piece... I'm not even sure if he was the second piece...
zbhargrove
Well-known member
We got an above average offensive MLB SS replacement, who is pretty good defensively plus our top prospect who has the ceiling of a LHP shut down ace... not to mention another top 10 prospect now in our system. All for a defense only SS... it was a fantastic trade. After everything settled and we learned more about the prospects we received, I don't see how anyone could argue any different.
Let me reiterate... a defense only SS who has regressed significantly offensively netted a decent replacement PLUS our top prospect in an already loaded system, PLUS another top 10 guy in our system.
Deester11
Well-known member
Gotta agree with this.
Who has said that Newcomb has the potential to be a 'shut down' ace? The most effusive praise I've read about him, that doesn't emanate directly from the Atlanta organization, is from Keith Law -- who sees him as a #2. I like Newcomb's potential but it's important to taper expectations here just a wee bit. Ellis and Aybar are interesting pieces, especially if the Braves can manage to flip the latter for additional prospect depth. But it's an egregious misevaluation of Simmons' worth if people are already dubbing this a clear win for Atlanta.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
I disagree regarding Ender's value. It clearly has room to grow.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I think he is most likely to be a #2 or #3, but he most certainly has a ceiling of something higher with his stuff. He already has 2 plus pitches with the potential with 2 other above average pitches that also have the potential to be plus... He can hit 97 and has great projection and mechanics. McDaniel gave him a ceiling of an ace before he took a job with the Braves... while he was still obviously a Braves fan, it is clear to anyone that he is an elite talent evaluator. Baseball America compared him to Lester... is Lester an ace?
I do think this is a clear win for the Braves... its not as good as the Miller trade, but it was very good.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I don't know... defensively he's likely at his peak and his minor league numbers never suggested he'd be as good as he was last year offensively. On top of that, he has very severe splits.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I think it's fine to have reservations about this one. Newcomb looks good, but we should attach all of the pertinent disclaimers about pitching prospects. Also, Aybar is a one year stopgap, not a replacement for Tron.
Since the trade, our depth situation at shortstop has obviously changed, though.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
I actually liked the Simba trade too. But, it's an opinion.