What is (or do you have) your own personal "limit" in regards to statistics?

Mrs. Meta

Mrs. Meta

Well-known member
Just another thang that's been on my mind lately. For instance, I definitely used to put more stock into batting average than I do now. However, I really never was a part of the scout or stat debate - just didn't really have enough knowledge either way.

Right now, I'm just sorta beginning to discover the endless cycle of enjoyment that BABIP can be. As for other stats, OPS is probably what I look at the most these days - with a cursory glance to WAR.

Anyway, in just doing some quick googling of Sabermetrics, I was kinda overwhelmed at the amount of statistical measurement in baseball (this coming from someone who took more than his fair share of stats in college :cooter:).

So yeah, the topic...do you guys (even and especially the more statistically-inclinded of you) have any sorta limit (or stopping point) for yourselves in regards to these wondrous (and bounteous) statistics? :cooter:
 
I still pay far more attention to ERA than I should. I was never enamored of wins, so it didn't make me long to discard them, but pitcher ERA...I wish I could quit you.
 
W/L is the dumbest stat in baseball.

ERA, FIP, WHIP, K/BB, and other stats I use more for pitchers.
 
I'm a traditionalist. I still look at AVG, HR, RBI, and runs scored first. Then I'll look at things like OBP and SLG. (OPS)

I don't pay any attention to things like WAR, UZR, or any of the other advanced stats. I've started to ignore BABIP and LD % as well, I'd rather just watch a guy hit not let stats tell me how a guy is hitting. I'm sure I'll be criticized by saying I'm limiting myself but I don't need to know that stuff to enjoy the game. I think you can get bogged down with too many stats.

For pitching I look at ERA, WHIP, and K/BB ratio.
 
ChapelHillMatt said:
I'm a traditionalist. I still look at AVG, HR, RBI, and runs scored first. Then I'll look at things like OBP and SLG. (OPS)

I don't pay any attention to things like WAR, UZR, or any of the other advanced stats. I've started to ignore BABIP and LD % as well, I'd rather just watch a guy hit not let stats tell me how a guy is hitting. I'm sure I'll be criticized by saying I'm limiting myself but I don't need to know that stuff to enjoy the game. I think you can get bogged down with too many stats.

For pitching I look at ERA, WHIP, and K/BB ratio.
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I don't blame you for not looking at those things. I don't get too into it because I just feel it's too much sometimes. However, it's hard to debate things without looking at advanced stats, IMO. They are not concrete or 100% but they give pretty good indicators a lot of the time. Certainly more than things like RBI and AVG do.
 
And defensive stats, IMO, should be taken with a grain of salt right now.
I was just out of curiosity looking at A-Rod's career stats on fangraphs. They have him at +16 in 2000 in fielding and -9 in 2001. Was he THAT much worse in 2001 than 2000? I doubt it.
 
I prefer wOBA over OPS, and I like Isolated Power (ISO.)

Pitching wise, I always start with ERA and compare it to FIP. Then, K/9 and BB/9.
 
In baseball there are too many stats and rules!
That's why this sport will never make it europe! (except the netherlands)

I'm interested in baseball since 1991, but i don't know a lot of these stats, not what they stand for, not what the short cuts mean!
and I see new things und rules for the first time so often!
 
I'm one of those who agrees with the importance of advanced stats in assessing players, but doesn't claim to fully understand them or really care about them for my own enjoyment of the game. Pitcher wins are stupid. For batters, I look primarily at OPS, but I give weight to BA too. For pitchers, I like ERAs as a quick indicator, but I look at WHIP and K/9 too.
 
I hate WAR, both pitching and offense, though I can somewhat tolerate offensive WAR. I dislike it mainly because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge the inconsistencies in it.

But there is no other stat I hate more than FIP. It's almost completely useless to me.

Offensively, I prefer OPS and OPS+ as a quick look. I don't know that much about wOBA other than it tends to reward offenses players with higher OBP's, which I actually don't have a problem with.

Pitching wise, I am still a sucker for ERA and ERA+ as a quick look, but I pay quick attention to sub stats like K/9, WHIP, and HR/9 to see if the ERA actually holds up.
 
JMO

Best stat for judging offensive performance per PA - wRC+

Best offensive stat for judging value - wRAA

Best judge for defense with proper sampling - UZR/150

Best pitching stats - FIP- ERA- and SIERA (SIERA is kinda my favorite right now)

Worst stat for judging offensive value - RBI and Runs as they're products of the guys around you.

Worst stat for judging pitchign - Wins and losses with blown saves and saves.

Worst stat for judging defense - Fielding Percentage

Now don't get me wrong, those worst stats all tell things, things that aren't irrelevant, but that aren't indicative of true ability
 
If Freddie wasn't such a good hitter, his RBI total wouldn't be so high. I know everybody hates RBI and it doesn't tell the complete story, but come on. You can't suck and still knock in 100 guys in a season.
 
chipchildress said:
If Freddie wasn't such a good hitter, his RBI total wouldn't be so high. I know everybody hates RBI and it doesn't tell the complete story, but come on. You can't suck and still knock in 100 guys in a season.
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Francoeur had 100 rbi in 2006 and was pretty awful.
 
chipchildress said:
If Freddie wasn't such a good hitter, his RBI total wouldn't be so high. I know everybody hates RBI and it doesn't tell the complete story, but come on. You can't suck and still knock in 100 guys in a season.
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And you can be great and not knock in 100.

Perfect example was when Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins won their MVPs, Chase Utley was the better player but he didn't have the runs scored or RBIs.

Brandon Phillips is a perfect counter argument, he's sitting at 6th in baseball in RBIs, but has worse offensive stats than anyone not named BJ Upton or Andrelton Simmons on our team.

As I said, RBIs tell a stat, and it's not totally irrelevant, it's not indicative of true abilities. FOr exampel, if Miggy only had like 50 RBIs, he'd still be the best hitter in baseball. Another example is in less PA Gattis has more RBIs than Chris Johnson. JOhnson has been the superior hitter.
 
Any offensive/pitching stats are interesting and worthwhile. Any stat where a large degree of subjective bias comes into play (Defensive Stats) is when I draw the line in taking them as the gospel. Won't stop me from looking at them because I think it helps in evaluation but its not the end all.
 
Carp said:
I hate WAR, both pitching and offense, though I can somewhat tolerate offensive WAR. I dislike it mainly because a lot of people refuse to acknowledge the inconsistencies in it.

But there is no other stat I hate more than FIP. It's almost completely useless to me.

Offensively, I prefer OPS and OPS+ as a quick look. I don't know that much about wOBA other than it tends to reward offenses players with higher OBP's, which I actually don't have a problem with.

Pitching wise, I am still a sucker for ERA and ERA+ as a quick look, but I pay quick attention to sub stats like K/9, WHIP, and HR/9 to see if the ERA actually holds up.
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Carpe hates war, but looks at K/9, BB/9, HR/9. Makes sense.
 
For pitchers I like WHIP, and K/9.

For hitters I tend to OPS and OPS+ and OBP.

I don't care for any defensive stats. Could be why I believe Chris Johnson has been adequate defensively since I only go by what I've seen of him this season.
 
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