What is (or do you have) your own personal "limit" in regards to statistics?

thewupk said:
Francoeur had 100 rbi in 2006 and was pretty awful.
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he must have been doing something right though. OPS notwithstanding.

how do you calculate hitting a ground ball to score a run into the equation of whether a guy is good or not? honest question here. is there a stat for that besides RBI? i'd be curious if people thought situational RBI stats might be more relevant. surely there is still such thing as situational hitting that might matter... and yes, i know that frenchy probably isn't the best example for this kind of thing.
 
I am leaning away from the importance of the RBI somewhat but I do believe sabermetricians fail to understand that these are human beings and not robots. Pitchers pitch differently with runners in scoring position.
 
Hack had 298 PAs with runners on base and 190 with runners in scoring position that year. He was actually respectful in those situations.
 
thethe said:
I am leaning away from the importance of the RBI somewhat but I do believe sabermetricians fail to understand that these are human beings and not robots. Pitchers pitch differently with runners in scoring position.
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And hitters hit differently with RISP. I'm with you, not saying RBI is a great stat by any means, but it's not purely luck or circumstance.
 
I know I will get ridiculed for this but I am going to say it anyway.

First off, Francouer was never going to be a good major leaguer. We also know that he was highly sensitive and didn't react to negative situations well. I really believe that he allowed the sabermetric criticism to get into his head and tried to change who he was. Francouer should have always just been the guy who "gripped it and ripped it". Again, he would have never been a good major league player but I do believe that he would have had a better career than he had.
 
thethe said:
I know I will get ridiculed for this but I am going to say it anyway.

First off, Francouer was never going to be a good major leaguer. We also know that he was highly sensitive and didn't react to negative situations well. I really believe that he allowed the sabermetric criticism to get into his head and tried to change who he was. Francouer should have always just been the guy who "gripped it and ripped it". Again, he would have never been a good major league player but I do believe that he would have had a better career than he had.
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Francouers issues were as much if not more physical than mental. The dudes swing looked like Michael Jordan trying to play baseball. His swing was long and he has to commit to a swing well before he can determine what type of pitch is being thrown.
 
chipchildress said:
he must have been doing something right though. OPS notwithstanding.

how do you calculate hitting a ground ball to score a run into the equation of whether a guy is good or not? honest question here. is there a stat for that besides RBI? i'd be curious if people thought situational RBI stats might be more relevant. surely there is still such thing as situational hitting that might matter... and yes, i know that frenchy probably isn't the best example for this kind of thing.
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Well his teammates in front of him were really good so he had a ton of chances to drive in runs. And he actually hit ok with RISP. At the time many argued that this was a skill and he was just that good. Others argued it was a fluke and it would correct itself after he's been in the league for awhile. Which it has. Hitting well with RISP is not a skill. Some years you will hit better in that situation and some times you won't. Over time this evens out.

I'm not sure if there is a situational RBI stat or not. But you can look at a players splits with say a runner on 3rd and less than two outs to see if they shorten their swing to make contact to get the runner in or not.
 
For hitters- OBP, OPS, Extra base hits, and WAR some what. I like the original raw numbers so I can decide how I feel about the hitter rather than advanced stats.

Pitchers- ERA, WHIP, FIP. Not sure if it's a stat but Pitches per inning seems like a big deal.
 
I enjoy what I call "enhanced scouting" stats, which include things like ground ball (and ground out) percentages for pitchers and line-drive % for hitters. When it gets to the employment of multiple regression analysis, it loses me. I think one can determine what kind (and level) a player is by sorting through the the kinds of types of outs and at-bats a batter has and the kind of outs a pitcher generates.
 
I like obp. I think batting average is a flawed statistic, and I've been working w one of my own (i think) called damage indicator. I do total bases/(hits+walks). It's fairly inelastic, but its meant to show how close a player gets to scoring w every reach.
 
Hitting: OBP, SLG, OPS (since way before they were cool). BB/PA, LD%. I like to add the net steals into TB to add value to the Judy hitters who run (Bourn, Pierre). Evens the playing field.

Pitching: BB/9, K/9, WHIP, HR/9, ERA, FIP

Fielding: Almost nothing. At this point, it's crap. Zito, don't bother to try.
 
chipchildress said:
he must have been doing something right though. OPS notwithstanding.

how do you calculate hitting a ground ball to score a run into the equation of whether a guy is good or not? honest question here. is there a stat for that besides RBI? i'd be curious if people thought situational RBI stats might be more relevant. surely there is still such thing as situational hitting that might matter... and yes, i know that frenchy probably isn't the best example for this kind of thing.
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The issue is, for any particluar hitter, it's such a rare occurence. To come up in that situation, with a man on 3rd and less than 2outs, the average hitter probably gets no more than 10-15 chances at that per yr.
 
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