What IS "Fair Value" That Would Entice Miami To Trade Realmuto Within The Division?

Enscheff said:
Grandal is looking at McCann/Martin money (5/80+, possibly closer to 90), and Pollock is looking at LoCain money (5/80, maybe 4 years due to injury concerns).

I think the Camargo/Riley tandem as well as the myriad cheap young pitching options means the Braves can quite possibly afford both players. I also think it is likely the Braves sign one impact player and trade for another, and that player could very well be Realmuto.

We have discussed JT's surplus value many times, so going over it again in another thread isn't necessary.
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I think I would rather see them go Flowers, Suzuki and McCann all for less than it will cost just for Grandal. McCann can play 1B if needed and all three have power off the bench. With Culberson around to be your super sub, I think you could afford to carry three guys who are primarily catchers and with their age it's likely 1 of the 3 would be on the DL at any particular time. McCann might be your manager in the future.

Then sign Pollock and use the rest of the money elsewhere.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think I would rather see them go Flowers, Suzuki and McCann all for less than it will cost just for Grandal. McCann can play 1B if needed and all three have power off the bench. With Culberson around to be your super sub, I think you could afford to carry three guys who are primarily catchers and with their age it's likely 1 of the 3 would be on the DL at any particular time. McCann might be your manager in the future.

Then sign Pollock and use the rest of the money elsewhere.
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You are suggesting the Braves could carry 3 catchers just because one of them can back up 1B? And because Mac might someday manage the Braves?
 
Enscheff said:
You are suggesting the Braves could carry 3 catchers just because one of them can back up 1B? And because Mac might someday manage the Braves?
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No. Three catchers because 1., with their age and injury history, it's unlikely that there will be more than 2 available at any one time and 2. each of the three are short term commitments at relatively low cost, likely less combined than the single cost of Grandal and 3. But, if they all ARE healthy and capable of playing at the same time, then each is a capable (if not great) bat of the bench with McCann at least being able to play 1B if needed and finally as an added bonus 4. McCann might possibly be viewed as a long term managerial candidate (I have no wish for that one way or another, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't in the backs of some minds around the Braves FO and overlords (Bobby in particular)).

Instead of committing extensive funds long term to a catcher (Grandal), which I consider very risky, I would prefer to spread the risk a bit and see if Contreras pans out in a couple of years.
 
Pollock and Grandal would definitely make this team a strong contender for the next several years.
 
jpx7 said:
It’d be interesting for the surplus-value whizzes to chart what a “fair” overpay for Grandal might look like. He’s been worth around 3.0 war each of the past three years, but he’s a catcher who’ll be entering his age-30 season, so some decline expectation has to be baked in. Would 4 years at $88 million total be “fair”? Would it be workable/justifiable for the Braves?
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Would it be "fair"? More than likely. I'm just not interested in tying up those kinds of finances in a Catcher. Think about how much lots of folks HOWLED about how bad Mac's Yankees deal was. Is there ANY reason to think that a 4 year deal for Grandal in that range could possibly work out better?
 
thewupk said:
If Mac was hitting righties well then I would be ok with a move like that. But he looks to be done.
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He hit well in April and hit well in a short stint to end the season, but the knee injury in May pretty much killed his year. Now, knee pain for an aging catcher doesn't exactly bode well for the future, but his hitting ability doesn't seem to be an issue as much as expecting him to stay healthy enough to catch for 80-90 games or more.
 
Perfect Cell said:
I dont get the obsession for JT, and to be honest i dont see the need to upgrade at C. With Markakis leaving id rather target an OF with money or trade assets. Maybe a starter to slot next to Folty. Maybe a high leverage releavier to pitch the 8th, and maybe a 3B. But Carmago has sort of won me over. With Tyler Flowers back next year, getting another servicible type that can start 2 times a week to give Flowers some rest is enough
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It's not so much the money for a Grandal signing (for me) is as big an issue as what it locks you into. I want no part of a Harper/Machado level signing, and I think most of the numbers-inclined crowd would agree with that. From a fan standpoint, I'd love it, but it's just not that good an idea. Maybe Contreras never turns into what I think he's got a chance to be, and that's fine. If he's anywhere close, you make a QO to Realmuto in two years - if he accepts make him an OF for a year, if he passes take the high pick and be happy.

Realmuto just fits our timeline better than anyone else out there. I'd just as soon not pay Grandal ~ $20 million per to be a part-time guy for two years if Contreras is what I think he is. I'd also just as soon not tie up the money it's going to take (especially if you have to build player options into the deal) to play on the Harper/Machado level and then have to try to figure out what to do with Riley/Camargo/Ender/Pache/Waters - if you sign one of those guys, there's a legitimate chance you have to give someone away since you won't have room for everybody.

As unfortunate as some feel that scenario is, AA's going to have to rely on our scouts' "eye-test" at some point, and at this point there's little reason to expect that moving Johan to the OF, handing 3B to Riley, and adding Realmuto for the next two years isn't a better idea to make us a legitimate contender than tying up $100+ million in any free-agent that's available IMO.
 
I think any potential offseason moves require establishing who your "off-limits" prospects/young players are - and at this point they're entirely different than they were 12 months ago. For me, those are...

Acuna
Albies
Camargo
Dansby (edgy, sure - and I understand the reasons behind moving him if you were going to sign Machado and the signing was contingent on him playing SS - I just don't want to tie $300 million up in ANYBODY)
Folty
Soroka
Touki
Wright
Anderson
Riley
Pache
Contreras

and maybe Waters

AA has the financial flexibility this winter to add whomever he deems necessary to fill any holes he needs to if he holds onto that group IMO.
 
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Heyward said:
With Ender, Swanson being inconsistent offensively, i think a better bat at C is a must. But i'd probably rather save our prospects for the right deal and just sign Grandal.
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That's kinda the point of the thread - where is "the right deal" over the next two years if it's not Realmuto? If you don't move some of these arms soon, they're not likely going to have value at all - why not go move the ones you deem "expendable" while they still have value?
 
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Carp said:
He hit well in April and hit well in a short stint to end the season, but the knee injury in May pretty much killed his year. Now, knee pain for an aging catcher doesn't exactly bode well for the future, but his hitting ability doesn't seem to be an issue as much as expecting him to stay healthy enough to catch for 80-90 games or more.
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In a perfect world - the one where Mac could stay healthy enough to be behind the plate for 80-ish games - a Flow/Mac pairing would be ideal for me, but only because I'm sold on Contreras and believe that he could replace Mac in that situation if we picked up Flow's 2020 option.

I'm as big a Mac fan as exists - I just don't see that happening. Then you have to also have him healthy during this time of year if you're contending
 
Enscheff said:
Grandal is looking at McCann/Martin money (5/80+, possibly closer to 90), and Pollock is looking at LoCain money (5/80, maybe 4 years due to injury concerns).

I think the Camargo/Riley tandem as well as the myriad cheap young pitching options means the Braves can quite possibly afford both players. I also think it is likely the Braves sign one impact player and trade for another, and that player could very well be Realmuto.

We have discussed JT's surplus value many times, so going over it again in another thread isn't necessary.
Click to expand...

This - along with Pollock's injury concerns - is the reason I'm even higher on trading for Realmuto than most potential offseason moves.

If AA's going to spend a big chunk of that supposedly "available capital" (excess prospects AND the money coming off the books), why not spend it where you have the most depth to cover for someone who gets injured?

I've been ridiculed for the idea before, but would still love to see what adding Realmuto and Riley and replacing Markakis with Camargo while upgrading from Newk to Corbin would do for our chances in 2019-2021. If Corbin gets hurt, you plug Newk/Soroka/Wright/Anderson in to replace him.
 
clvclv said:
This - along with Pollock's injury concerns - is the reason I'm even higher on trading for Realmuto than most potential offseason moves.

If AA's going to spend a big chunk of that supposedly "available capital" (excess prospects AND the money coming off the books), why not spend it where you have the most depth to cover for someone who gets injured?

I've been ridiculed for the idea before, but would still love to see what adding Realmuto and Riley and replacing Markakis with Camargo while upgrading from Newk to Corbin would do for our chances in 2019-2021. If Corbin gets hurt, you plug Newk/Soroka/Wright/Anderson in to replace him.
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I could support trading for say degrom, an established consistent ace with below market salary for limited time. Paying the inconsistent Corbin for 4-5 market rate seasons is less appealing, especially since he’s had whispers of injury concerns.
 
clvclv said:
This - along with Pollock's injury concerns - is the reason I'm even higher on trading for Realmuto than most potential offseason moves.

If AA's going to spend a big chunk of that supposedly "available capital" (excess prospects AND the money coming off the books), why not spend it where you have the most depth to cover for someone who gets injured?

I've been ridiculed for the idea before, but would still love to see what adding Realmuto and Riley and replacing Markakis with Camargo while upgrading from Newk to Corbin would do for our chances in 2019-2021. If Corbin gets hurt, you plug Newk/Soroka/Wright/Anderson in to replace him.
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Considering the depth the Braves have in the rotation, i'm not sure they'll be in the Corbin market or the SP market given the arms that will be ready in the next 2 years.
 
clvclv said:
That's kinda the point of the thread - where is "the right deal" over the next two years if it's not Realmuto? If you don't move some of these arms soon, they're not likely going to have value at all - why not go move the ones you deem "expendable" while they still have value?
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Yeah i've said i think the Braves make a trade this winter given some of the prospects are losing steam (Allard, Gohara to name a couple), and the team is ready to win now, and start the competitive window.

It will be interesting what AA does with more money but not as much as some fans think, and a good farm system to upgrade the ML roster.
 
Would we be paying McCann or would he be paying us? Hey, I love the guy, but his .640 OPS in 216 PAs this past year doesn't do that much for me.

I think that anything that might be lost in Realmuto's pitch framing would be more than made up by his hitting. That said, I think it's a longshot he ends up in Atlanta.
 
there's no reason not to aim high with our moves this offseason. we should be chasing players like grandal, pollock, or guys via trades. guys like mccann shouldn't even be on our radar.

realmuto will likely cost too much.
 
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