Where have the trick pitches gone?

H

Horsehide Harry

<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I was thinking the other day that we aren't seeing the predominance of "trick pitches" that we used to see.

Where are the guys that throw the splitter? Or the screwball? Or the knuckle-curve (still a few around)? Or the palm ball?

Even the change-up at one time had about a billion variations. And the cutter doesn't seem to be as popular as it was...

Is it just the teachers like Roger Craig are dieing out or being shuffled out of baseball or is their something else like some kind of definitive medical study that says FB, CB, CH and an occasional slider is all a guy should throw?

In days past, a pitcher who's "stuff" doesn't quite play could possibly learn one of those pitches to change his entire career. I was thinking guys like Wisler, Blair, Sims, etc. might benefit from some of that....
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I was thinking the other day that we aren't seeing the predominance of "trick pitches" that we used to see.

Where are the guys that throw the splitter? Or the screwball? Or the knuckle-curve (still a few around)? Or the palm ball?

Even the change-up at one time had about a billion variations. And the cutter doesn't seem to be as popular as it was...

Is it just the teachers like Roger Craig are dieing out or being shuffled out of baseball or is their something else like some kind of definitive medical study that says FB, CB, CH and an occasional slider is all a guy should throw?

In days past, a pitcher who's "stuff" doesn't quite play could possibly learn one of those pitches to change his entire career. I was thinking guys like Wisler, Blair, Sims, etc. might benefit from some of that....
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You are gonna love Brent Honeywell when he comes up.
 
I think there's something to be said for the somewhat hazy lines between pitches. When is a cutter a true cutter and when is it a four seam fastball that has some cutting movement to it? When is it just a hard slider?

Some pitches have fallen off due to injury concerns. IIRC, both the splitter and screwball have a reputation as being bad for the elbow and so pitchers are warned away from them.

The changeup still has a lot of variations. There are a ton of different grips guys use. Everything from a circle change to the vulcan grip used by Gant.
 
I see someone already mentioned that John Gant throws the Vulcan. One of the reasons I liked him, in addition to his zany body language on the mound. I have a sentimental attachment to the Vulcan. Taught both of my sons how to throw it. Well I worked with them on the grip. I don't know that they ever mastered it.
 
striker42 said:
I think there's something to be said for the somewhat hazy lines between pitches. When is a cutter a true cutter and when is it a four seam fastball that has some cutting movement to it? When is it just a hard slider?

Some pitches have fallen off due to injury concerns. IIRC, both the splitter and screwball have a reputation as being bad for the elbow and so pitchers are warned away from them.

The changeup still has a lot of variations. There are a ton of different grips guys use. Everything from a circle change to the vulcan grip used by Gant.
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The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.
 
striker42 said:
I think there's something to be said for the somewhat hazy lines between pitches. When is a cutter a true cutter and when is it a four seam fastball that has some cutting movement to it? When is it just a hard slider?

Some pitches have fallen off due to injury concerns. IIRC, both the splitter and screwball have a reputation as being bad for the elbow and so pitchers are warned away from them.

The changeup still has a lot of variations. There are a ton of different grips guys use. Everything from a circle change to the vulcan grip used by Gant.
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I'm not sure about the splitter, but I've heard that the worry over the screwball is unfounded. I've seen several doctors say that a properly thrown screwball isn't any worse than any other breaking ball. Its just a natural instinct among baseball people to see that arm action and assume its bad for the arm. I could be totally off on this, but I am fairly certain that I have read some research regarding it a few years back.
 
thewupk said:
The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.
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Sam Freeman uses his splitter as a good change up.
 
I think with specialization and giant pitching staffs everyone is going for pure stuff. It's crazy velocity. It's FB and sliders.
 
In the same vein, I feel like the number of side-armers and submariners has plummeted in this decade, as well.
 
thewupk said:
The splitter is my favorite pitch partially due to Smoltz having a great one and owning people all day long with it. Sadly it caused him injury issues here and there. Clemens had a great splitter as well. Might be that I don't follow MLB as a whole as I used to but I can't really recall anyone since those two that have had that good of a split finger pitch.
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Schilling. Although I'm not sure if that was closer to a Forkball than splitter. I remember in AZ he had cuts on the inside of his index and middle fingers due to the fork.
 
I seriously doubt there is a large enough sample within a team to have a study on likelihood of injury, so I would guess the changes in pitching style would be based on assumptions of injury (screwball) or anecdotes (Smoltz was injured by the splitter).
 
Forever Fredi said:
Schilling. Although I'm not sure if that was closer to a Forkball than splitter. I remember in AZ he had cuts on the inside of his index and middle fingers due to the fork.
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Schilling's was good. However he retired the same year as Clemens and two years before Smoltz. So I wouldn't say Schilling came after those two.
 
thewupk said:
Schilling's was good. However he retired the same year as Clemens and two years before Smoltz. So I wouldn't say Schilling came after those two.
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Well he emerged onto the scene after those two. That's what I thought you meant when you said after them. NVM he arrived same year as Smoltz. But didn't become a star until after those two.
 
Tanaka throws a splitter. He used it a lot more in his first season with the Yankees. After the partial tear in his UCL he scaled back usage of it.
 
Which reminds me Darvish does throw a splitter too.

Dickey is a knuckler but he isn't like Sparks-Wakefield knuckler.

Has anyone thrown the knuckle-curve since Mussina? How about Screwball since Franco?
 
thewupk said:
I'd agree with this. Hard, harder, hardest is the way pitching is going. For better or worse.
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I have wondered about palm balls with this....

If you can't throw a change b/c you don't have the feel, could you just up the friction at release and get enough decrease in velocity to have a blah third pitch? The Braves have a couple of guys who need something soft vs the opposite side hitters. Could you just choke up on the ball and throw your fastball and get positive results?
 
Forever Fredi said:
Which reminds me Darvish does throw a splitter too.

Dickey is a knuckler but he isn't like Sparks-Wakefield knuckler.

Has anyone thrown the knuckle-curve since Mussina? How about Screwball since Franco?
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Honeywell is coming up with a screwball. Phil Hughes currently throws a knuckle curve. I think lots of relievers us it as well
 
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