Will the real Jason Heyward please stand up?

jsebe10 said:
How do you win ball games? SCORING MORE RUNS THAN THE OPPONENT. Not saving more runs than the opponent. Defense is important, but not as important as scoring runs, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Um, how so? Runs count the same, right? If I hit a home run and make an error that allows a run to score, I have contributed exactly 0 runs. If I make catches that save two, taking two off the other guy's total, and don't hit a lick, I have contributed two runs. How are the runs different?

As you say, you win by scoring more than the other guy. Keeping him from scoring is just as important.

Let's say we score two. The other guy scores one. If I hadn't saved those two runs, the other team wins three to two. The two runs I contributed with my glove were the difference in the game.
 
JohnAdcox said:
Um, how so? Runs count the same, right? If I hit a home run and make an error that allows a run to score, I have contributed exactly 0 runs. If I make catches that save two, taking two off the other guy's total, and don't hit a lick, I have contributed two runs. How are the runs different?
As you say, you win by scoring more than the other guy. Keeping him from scoring is just as important.

Let's say we score two. The other guy scores one. If I hadn't saved those two runs, the other team wins three to two. The two runs I contributed with my glove were the difference in the game.
Click to expand...

So does that mean that an average fielding great hitter with a war of 6 is going to get a contract equal to an average hitting great defender who also has a war of 6?
 
gtcway said:
So does that mean that an average fielding great hitter with a war of 6 is going to get a contract equal to an average hitting great defender who also has a war of 6?
Click to expand...

No which is why there's an inherent value to signing defensive talented players. Perfect example is the contracts Bourn signed vs. most other centerfielders.
 
JohnAdcox said:
Um, how so? Runs count the same, right? If I hit a home run and make an error that allows a run to score, I have contributed exactly 0 runs. If I make catches that save two, taking two off the other guy's total, and don't hit a lick, I have contributed two runs. How are the runs different?

As you say, you win by scoring more than the other guy. Keeping him from scoring is just as important.

Let's say we score two. The other guy scores one. If I hadn't saved those two runs, the other team wins three to two. The two runs I contributed with my glove were the difference in the game.
Click to expand...

You go tell Heyward that's it's ok to hit .190 because he is saving runs. Ask him what a WAR is too...
 
thewupk said:
I don't think anyone is saying it's okay to hit .190. But there are other parts of the game of baseball besides hitting. And using batting average is beyond stupid anyways.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there isnt an offensive number you could use that would be a positive for him right now. =(
 
He's not good at the plate right now. I think he'll turn it around. I think that the game that he brings, assuming good health, is not only valuable, but undervalued, and I'd be comfortable signing him long term. He's hitting .194, and everyone's disappointed. Fine. But let's not underrate his past hitting performance, or pretend that his current struggles are going to persist indefinitely.
 
Modok said:
Unfortunately, there isnt an offensive number you could use that would be a positive for him right now. =(
Click to expand...

You are right there isn't. But the season is also a month old and anybody making decisions on a month of data is a fool. Heyward is a career 117 wrc+ hitter which includes this year and his horrible injury ridden 2011. The average for RF in that span is around a wrc+ of 107 which makes Heyward an above average hitter for his position. He also is among the best defensively and running the bases for his position too. Overall he is one of the better RFers in the game even with his inconsistent offense.

Like I said earlier. If he stays with Atlanta he will likely get the Andruw treatment from most fans who always want more and can't appreciate what he does give the team. It's sad really.
 
thewupk said:
You are right there isn't. But the season is also a month old and anybody making decisions on a month of data is a fool. Heyward is a career 117 wrc+ hitter which includes this year and his horrible injury ridden 2011. The average for RF in that span is around a wrc+ of 107 which makes Heyward an above average hitter for his position. He also is among the defensively and running the bases for his position too. Overall he is one of the better RFers in the game even with his inconsistent offense.

Like I said earlier. If he stays with Atlanta he will likely get the Andruw treatment from most fans who always want more and can't appreciate what he does give the team. It's sad really.
Click to expand...

^^^
That.

Minus the smiles and the fat jokes.
 
thewupk said:
You are right there isn't. But the season is also a month old and anybody making decisions on a month of data is a fool. Heyward is a career 117 wrc+ hitter which includes this year and his horrible injury ridden 2011. The average for RF in that span is around a wrc+ of 107 which makes Heyward an above average hitter for his position. He also is among the best defensively and running the bases for his position too. Overall he is one of the better RFers in the game even with his inconsistent offense.

Like I said earlier. If he stays with Atlanta he will likely get the Andruw treatment from most fans who always want more and can't appreciate what he does give the team. It's sad really.
Click to expand...

Being in RF hurts him as well. In center, I think his defensive ability would be more recognized.
 
zitothebrave said:
No which is why there's an inherent value to signing defensive talented players. Perfect example is the contracts Bourn signed vs. most other centerfielders.
Click to expand...

I would hardly call the Bourn contract a good one. Unless you are comparing him to BJ's contract.
 
Orphan Black said:
I'll say it again...despite sucking offensively this season Jason is still tied for sixth best WAR in the NL at 1.2...the is with the negative offensive WAR. I'm not saying what Jason has done on offense is acceptable because of his defense, but it is what it is. I don't know that Heyward will ever be what everyone thought he would be, but he's on pace to put up a similar defensive WAR as Simmons last season.
Click to expand...

Which is one shouldn't put a lot of stock in defensive WAR, or defensive statistics in general
 
Heyward said:
I agree you dont get it.

He's saved a ton of runs.

Defense matters greatly, ask our pitchers if his defense makes no difference the way you make it seem.
Click to expand...

Apparently you don't understand defensive statistics and/or they're relation to WAR. Or you're just trolling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top