Winter Meetings Thread

gilesfan said:
You think Garcia is better than Frazier? What does he actually do better than Frazier?
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Those are two different questions. If we aren't going to contend next season, what good does Frazier do us for the long term? He's a FA at the end of 2017.
 
50PoundHead said:
Those are two different questions. If we aren't going to contend next season, what good does Frazier do us for the long term? He's a FA at the end of 2017.
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No, I agree with you on that. I was responding to the guy that said he preferred Garcia so I thought he was talking straight up.
 
gilesfan said:
No, I agree with you on that. I was responding to the guy that said he preferred Garcia so I thought he was talking straight up.
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Garcia had a higher AVG last season while Frazier provides veteran lairdership and power. My preference of Garcia is based on his AVG, salary, and the fact that Frazier is going to be a FA after the season and if im not mistaken we don't get to give him a QO.

Trading him at the deadline probably won't net us what it would take to get him in the first place, especially if he tanks. Remember he had the luxury of hitting in a hitter friendly stadium in Cin. and Chic.
 
Enscheff said:
Markakis, and his entire contract, probably could be moved for a nothing prospect. Problem is, the Braves think Markakis is better than he is. They feel like they are set in the OF with Kemp, Inciarte and Markakis, despite the fact that Ender is the only average or better player in that group.

The Braves FO is still very much in the stone ages when it comes to projecting current MLB player value, especially when it comes to defense and baserunning. There is no other explanation for them valuing Markakis and Kemp so highly.
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The braves have totally been to fangraphs before.
 
Southcack77 said:
The braves have totally been to fangraphs before.
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Correct. They even hired a writer from the site to be their AGM of Baseball Ops. Mock folks using FG as a primary reference all you want, but it is a direct feeder for MLB front office talent. You would do well to learn about everything they do if you want to become a knowledgeable fan.

The Braves signed Markakis in December of 2014, before Kiley McDaniel was hired to get the analytics department out of the dark ages. I'm sure the folks with a boner for Markakis that got him signed are the same boners keeping him in Atlanta.

I'm not sure what your attempt at a clever response has to do with anything being discussed though. Pretty stupid response actually.
 
You obviously understand a lot of things but if you can watch the braves play 162 and not think markakis was a positive then I don't believe you know baseball. He hasnt been great of course but he's been a solid to good player in his two years here
 
The thing about Neck was we didn't have a soul that was capable of playing RF for us after Heyward left. Really no one if I remember correctly.

It wasn't great money spent nonetheless.
 
thethe said:
You obviously understand a lot of things but if you can watch the braves play 162 and not think markakis was a positive then I don't believe you know baseball. He hasnt been great of course but he's been a solid to good player in his two years here
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He is absolutely a positive...about 1-2 WAR positive. Still average or a bit below as a whole package.

This whole notion that you can "see" a player's value is precisely why the teams that first embraced analytics had such a huge advantage. That huge advantage is why every single team has embraced the same analytics to some extent now that the DBacks and Twins have emerged from the dark ages. The success of those same analytics is why Kiley McDaniel was hired away from FG to head the Braves baseball ops department.

I promise you, the Braves aren't looking to add people that write fluff pieces on their own blog for a reason...they aren't valuable insights.
 
Enscheff said:
He is absolutely a positive...about 1-2 WAR positive. Still average or a bit below as a whole package.

This whole notion that you can "see" a player's value is precisely why the teams that first embraced analytics had such a huge advantage. That huge advantage is why every single team has embraced the same analytics to some extent now that the DBacks and Twins have emerged from the dark ages. The success of those same analytics is why Kiley McDaniel was hired away from FG to head the Braves baseball ops department.

I promise you, the Braves aren't looking to add people that write fluff pieces on their own blog for a reason...they aren't valuable insights.
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Analytics are best for players you don't see everyday. If you are a scout aND you watch a team everyday then you don't need to lean on stats as much as you would for any other player.
 
my reaction is to the idea the braves aren't capable of considering numbers that are generally available to casual fans.

The braves don't think they are loaded in the outfield. I'm sure they'd be happy to trade Markakis or Kemp if the oppportunity presented itself.

But they have long term plans, short term plans and plans in between

They want to build for the future without being terrible now. That's reasonable since revenue is important to winning and keeping your job also a factor.
 
Southcack77 said:
my reaction is to the idea the braves aren't capable of considering numbers that are generally available to casual fans.

The braves don't think they are loaded in the outfield. I'm sure they'd be happy to trade Markakis or Kemp if the oppportunity presented itself.

But they have long term plans, short term plans and plans in between

They want to build for the future without being terrible now. That's reasonable since revenue is important to winning and keeping your job also a factor.
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Great, I agree with all that. My response was your lame attempt at mocking FG, and by extension, folks that use it as a main source of reference.
 
thethe said:
Analytics are best for players you don't see everyday. If you are a scout aND you watch a team everyday then you don't need to lean on stats as much as you would for any other player.
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No, analytics are best for analyzing all players at the MLB level. Scouting is still the absolute best way to evaluate and project pre-MLB players. Teams were notoriously bad at evaluating their own MLB players even though they saw them every day.

Analytics strips away the bias and all other preconceived notions, and calculates what correlates to winning. Just 20 years ago folks didn't understand the value of OBP, and then some geek crunched some numbers and it is now known that OBP is much more important than BA. Folks used to evaluate their own players based on RBI totals, pitcher Wins and fielding percentage, and now thanks to analytics, all but the most dense people in baseball understand those stats are virtually meaningless.

There are many people still desperately clinging to "old school" thoughts about player value, but they are slowly being weeded out over time and will soon be nothing but a relic of the past.
 
Enscheff said:
Correct. They even hired a writer from the site to be their AGM of Baseball Ops. Mock folks using FG as a primary reference all you want, but it is a direct feeder for MLB front office talent. You would do well to learn about everything they do if you want to become a knowledgeable fan.

The Braves signed Markakis in December of 2014, before Kiley McDaniel was hired to get the analytics department out of the dark ages. I'm sure the folks with a boner for Markakis that got him signed are the same boners keeping him in Atlanta.

I'm not sure what your attempt at a clever response has to do with anything being discussed though. Pretty stupid response actually.
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The heck are you talking about? What makes you think the Braves believe they have a great OF? They signed Markakis because they had to use the money, might as well get something. They traded for Kemp because all they gave up was Olivera and they believe his bat will come back around enough.

There is nothing about keeping either player that indicates they're in the Stone Age in player valuation. Coppy is as analytically-driven as any GM in baseball.
 
Enscheff said:
Great, I agree with all that. My response was your lame attempt at mocking FG, and by extension, folks that use it as a main source of reference.
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At no point did I mock fangraphs. I like fangraphs. I know who Kiley Mcdaniel is. Knew it before today.
 
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