Wisler Back To AAA

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Preacher said:
Why not leave him alone after he made two really good starts in a row to see if he HAD STARTED to make some adjustments.
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The cat has been skinned a lot of different ways over history, but I somewhat agree with you. Let him stay down and work on things in a stable environment rather than give him different roles shuttling back and forth.

Of course, if the Braves have essentially given up on him as a rotation piece in 2018 forward then I guess finding an alternate use for his talent is something they should explore.

Personally, I've seen him be somewhat effective at times in the majors and his stuff is MLB quality at least in large part and I would leave him down and let him figure it out until I had another rotation opening.

If he failed again, then do the rotation thing.

On the other hand, the Cardinals in particular have used the major league pen to bring along struggling young starters in the past.
 
Preacher said:
Players aren't going to throw the same at AAA as a starter and in the majors as a reliever. Wisler had just put two really good starts together, and but at that level he's still able to work on his pitches without having to worry about getting crushed. His primary focus can be development, whereas coming out of the pen he needs to just get results.

Neither of these guys are so old that you give up on them and both have pedigree and past success that should buy them more time. Everything we do this year should be focused on developing our assets, either as players or trade pieces. Why not call up Hursh to fill that 6th inning role? Collementer can be the long-guy for awhile.
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I've certainly been one of Wisler's biggest defenders around these parts, but it's quickly becoming pretty obvious that they're likely never going to be anything other than RPs here - IF they can ever get hitters out at this level. I don't remember who mentioned it in the other thread, but the point that the brass kinda liked the idea of using Wisler as a 2 inning guy was talked about. It's become pretty clear that the organization isn't interested in trading any young arms in the least - for an "Ace" or a bat - otherwise they'd have been more interested in Sale or they'd have played on Quintana or Archer already.

So guys like Wisler and Blair who are about to get passed by 8-10 other arms should be developed as trade pieces??? Play whichever of the other 29 GMs you choose - what would you trade for them???

I'm perfectly fine with keeping them as those "break the glass in case of emergency" depth SPs in Gwinnett for as long as we possibly can, but they're rapidly proving that the only way they'll ever help the big club is as exactly that - an emergency starter. Every organization can use those guys, but most would prefer to have them become relievers they can count on so they DON'T need to pay those last couple of pen guys $2-$3 million every year.

Wisler's "wipeout" slider is awesome against guys who aren't quite good enough to be bench pieces on major league clubs - it just isn't very good against MLB hitters.
 
Preacher said:
Players aren't going to throw the same at AAA as a starter and in the majors as a reliever. Wisler had just put two really good starts together, and but at that level he's still able to work on his pitches without having to worry about getting crushed. His primary focus can be development, whereas coming out of the pen he needs to just get results.

Neither of these guys are so old that you give up on them and both have pedigree and past success that should buy them more time. Everything we do this year should be focused on developing our assets, either as players or trade pieces. Why not call up Hursh to fill that 6th inning role? Collementer can be the long-guy for awhile.
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You're right on all this, Preacher.

While we're at it, I did a little research on my lunch break. Career totals for Wisler:

wRC+ against:

FA: 150

SL: 46

CH: 197

The slider is a wipeout pitch. A camera-ready MLB pitch. Now, a guy who throws as hard (avg 93) as he does with reasonably repeatable mechanics should have a far better FB wRC+ against than that. His changeup is meat. And I think as you climb the ladder, one of the things that gets more evident is whether you can command three pitches for quality strikes.

You can get guys out at Gwinnett with a B+ fastball and A slider and a twice-a-game change. In MLB, they see the red dot, they lay off even if it's a strike, knowing a fastball will be next.

So it's a matter of starting from scratch, maybe even without hitters. Throw 100 changes in a row. Learn it, live it, love it. Or maybe try the splitter. Same thing, though. Immersion.

I wouldn't pitch him in Gwinnett until July. Perfect a third pitch or don't come back.

Not in favor of trading him, either. We'd just get junk back.
 
As a reminder:

Wisler was the #44 prospect according to BA before the 2014 season. To earn that ranking he posted the following lines at A+ and AA in 2013, at the age of 20:

A+ 31 IP, 2.03 ERA, 28 K, 6 BB

AA 105 IP, 3.00 ERA, 103 K, 27 BB

He then had a mediocre 2014 season at AA/AAA as a 21 year old and moved up to #34 on the BA list before the 2015 season.

And now he is a guy folks are calling a AAAA guy or a BP piece. It is looking like he is the typical Top 50-100 pitching prospect that busts 70% of the time (bust being defined as producing less than 3 WAR total).

Just food for thought when folks drool over all the starters in the Braves system. Yes, I know, I'm sure these current Braves prospects are different...except none of them are ranked as highly as Wisler was back in 2015.
 
Not sure why turning Wisler into an effective pen guy would be considered a failure - pretty sure Arizona's quite happy about what they're getting from Randall Delgado in that role.
 
Randall Delgado has produced a total of 1.6 WAR after being ranked similarly to Wisler.

I don't know what you want to call the "sub 3 WAR group", but I'm going to call them busts.

I doubt anyone would be happy if the Braves current top pitching prospects turned into Randall Delgado. In fact, if I were to say Ian Anderson was going to be Randall Delgado, I'm sure you Southern bigots would get so offended you'd tell me to shove it up my ass.
 
Guys, at least keep the flaming on-topic and relegated to actual discussion. I'm deleting every unsolicited bait or flame.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Guys, at least keep the flaming on-topic and relegated to actual discussion. I'm deleting every unsolicited bait or flame.
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So, he gets to call everyone a southern bigot with no repercussions, huh? You mods let this guy troll day after day with impunity and then you have the nerve to delete my stuff?
 
Garmel said:
So, he gets to call everyone a southern bigot with no repercussions, huh? You mods let this guy troll day after day with impunity and then you have the nerve to delete my stuff?
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He wasn't talking to you specifically. I deleted his posts too. And I will continue to delete posts that are off topic and only going to cause a flame war. You want to take jabs at each other during a discussion, have at it, but this crap is getting this place nowhere.

So, yeah, I did have the nerve to delete your posts. Deal with it.
 
Garmel said:
So, he gets to call everyone a southern bigot with no repercussions, huh? You mods let this guy troll day after day with impunity and then you have the nerve to delete my stuff?
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As someone with South African ancestry (that would be the really deep south to all the geographically challenged redneck Trump voters around here) I resent it.
 
CyYoung31 said:
He wasn't talking to you specifically. I deleted his posts too. And I will continue to delete posts that are off topic and only going to cause a flame war. You want to take jabs at each other during a discussion, have at it, but this crap is getting this place nowhere.

So, yeah, I did have the nerve to delete your posts. Deal with it.
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Clear your messages, Cy. We're not done yet.
 
nsacpi said:
As someone with South African ancestry (that would be the really deep south to all the geographically challenged redneck Trump voters around here) I resent it.
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dr-evil-right.gif
 
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