Would you do this?

TheBravos said:
And that's why trading Freeman is not Plausible. The trade you turned down was four of the Yankees top five prospects and they have a top three farm system.
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Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with that. I don't want to trade Freeman, don't think we should, and don't think we reasonably could even if we wanted to.
 
Seems at least one other non-homer is confused by the Braves recent moves that seem to be pushing towards contention that isn't realistic:

cj
12:32 I see myself as a reasonable braves fan, meaning I had no high hopes last years finish would translate like many other fans thought. My question is who do the braves trade at the deadline now? Freeman seems to be here to stay now with how he hits, but what about Teheran? or do they sell at all due to the new park? it just seems like a weird year with not many assets to trade of value

Dave Cameron
12:32 I saw Rosenthal note the other day that they expect to both buy and sell at the deadline, but given that they're trying to continue to sell this notion that they're close to winning, I have no idea what they can sell that anyone will want. Jim Johnson again? Okay.

Greg
12:37 Three 19-year-old Braves prospects are currently at Double A. They're all ranked in multiple top 100s. Why would a team so far from contention do this? What's the point in rushing prospects when you are bad, or have they figured something new out?

Dave Cameron
12:37 They don't think they are far from contention.
I don't think they're right, but it seems pretty clear there's an organizational push to win soon.
 
Enscheff said:
Seems at least one other non-homer is confused by the Braves recent moves that seem to be pushing towards contention that isn't realistic:

cj
12:32 I see myself as a reasonable braves fan, meaning I had no high hopes last years finish would translate like many other fans thought. My question is who do the braves trade at the deadline now? Freeman seems to be here to stay now with how he hits, but what about Teheran? or do they sell at all due to the new park? it just seems like a weird year with not many assets to trade of value

Dave Cameron
12:32 I saw Rosenthal note the other day that they expect to both buy and sell at the deadline, but given that they're trying to continue to sell this notion that they're close to winning, I have no idea what they can sell that anyone will want. Jim Johnson again? Okay.

Greg
12:37 Three 19-year-old Braves prospects are currently at Double A. They're all ranked in multiple top 100s. Why would a team so far from contention do this? What's the point in rushing prospects when you are bad, or have they figured something new out?

Dave Cameron
12:37 They don't think they are far from contention.
I don't think they're right, but it seems pretty clear there's an organizational push to win soon.
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We'll just have to wait and see. I personally don't think they're pushing guys like Allard, Soroka, and Acuna because they're trying to get them to the majors as quickly as they possibly can. I think the FO believes in challenging their top prospects that they believe are ready for it, and they like the idea of having guys who are very young for their level. It's a little difficult to challenge that belief right now with Allard and Soroka at least holding their own in AA and Acuna starting off with a bang there.

If they were really just trying to get guys to the majors as fast as possible, why would Albies not be up right now, why is Gohara in A+, why is Fried in AA, etc?

But it is just an opinion, which is all anyone can offer right now, including Dave Cameron. You disagree, and that's fine.
 
nsacpi said:
I would evaluate trades on a "time neutral" basis. In other words I don't think we should discount wins in a particular season at the expense of another. There are circumstances where this makes sense (mid-season) or at the end of a season when you have very little chance of competing the next.

Now I suspect what I just said will raise some eyebrows. Some people may think we have very little chance next year. I think this overlooks the two most significant developments this season so far in terms of implications for next year. One is Freddie's emergence as an elite player. When you have someone like that you can compete even with a whole lot of average at other positions.

Second, the news on our pitching in the minors has been very good. Most of them have put up really outstanding strikeout and walk rates. And more and more of them are doing it in AA and AAA.

Given those two developments, I'm not inclined to write off 2018. But I'm not inclined to do anything that is specifically focused on "accelerating" the rebuild. I would assess returns on trades on a "time neutral" basis.
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That was exceptionally well-argued.
 
smootness said:
We'll just have to wait and see. I personally don't think they're pushing guys like Allard, Soroka, and Acuna because they're trying to get them to the majors as quickly as they possibly can. I think the FO believes in challenging their top prospects that they believe are ready for it, and they like the idea of having guys who are very young for their level. It's a little difficult to challenge that belief right now with Allard and Soroka at least holding their own in AA and Acuna starting off with a bang there.

If they were really just trying to get guys to the majors as fast as possible, why would Albies not be up right now, why is Gohara in A+, why is Fried in AA, etc?

But it is just an opinion, which is all anyone can offer right now, including Dave Cameron. You disagree, and that's fine.
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I don't know if your read is the correct one, but I sure hope so.
 
smootness said:
We'll just have to wait and see. I personally don't think they're pushing guys like Allard, Soroka, and Acuna because they're trying to get them to the majors as quickly as they possibly can. I think the FO believes in challenging their top prospects that they believe are ready for it, and they like the idea of having guys who are very young for their level. It's a little difficult to challenge that belief right now with Allard and Soroka at least holding their own in AA and Acuna starting off with a bang there.

If they were really just trying to get guys to the majors as fast as possible, why would Albies not be up right now, why is Gohara in A+, why is Fried in AA, etc?

But it is just an opinion, which is all anyone can offer right now, including Dave Cameron. You disagree, and that's fine.
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The thing that will give away the answer is whether success in AAA is a pre-requisite to a call-up for the players in question. If you call up a player before they have succeeded in AAA you are asking them to do more learning at the major league level. For me this is an inefficient use of those six years of contractual control the team has.
 
nsacpi said:
The thing that will give away the answer is whether success in AAA is a pre-requisite to a call-up for the players in question. If you call up a player before they have succeeded in AAA you are asking them to do more learning at the major league level. For me this is an inefficient use of those six years of contractual control the team has.
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But they are desperate to win now because of the new park. Inefficient is a word that describes many of our moves last year #Swanson.
 
TheBravos said:
But they are desperate to win now because of the new park. Inefficient is a word that describes many of our moves last year #Swanson.
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we have one data point so far...Swanson...actually 2...Cabrera...but he isn't a core player
 
nsacpi said:
we have one data point so far...Swanson...actually 2...Cabrera...but he isn't a core player
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HO trade (giving up young assets for a 30 + year old in a rebuild), Kemp trade, Markakis signing, Dansby promotion, Cabrera promotion, not trading Julio at peak value...
 
TheBravos said:
HO trade (giving up young assets for a 30 + year old in a rebuild), Kemp trade, Markakis signing, Dansby promotion, Cabrera promotion, not trading Julio at peak value...
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And they also acquired veteran assets in the first half of 2015, that they traded for prospects.

Not every organization is going to be content winning 50 games for three years. Not many organizations at all, really.

If they had done that, people would have found it appalling and good chance they never see the end of the rebuild.

IS this better? I don't know. I wish they'd lost a little bit more in 2015 and 2016.
 
Southcack77 said:
And they also acquired veteran assets in the first half of 2015, that they traded for prospects.

Not every organization is going to be content winning 50 games for three years. Not many organizations at all, really.

If they had done that, people would have found it appalling and good chance they never see the end of the rebuild.

IS this better? I don't know. I wish they'd lost a little bit more in 2015 and 2016.
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That's where I am....being really bad or really, really bad doesn't matter to me. I just wish they tried to sign young gambles (maybe had a injury history), to gamble with instead of vets. To me watching old dudes loose is different than young guys learning (you feel like something is being built).
 
TheBravos said:
HO trade (giving up young assets for a 30 + year old in a rebuild), Kemp trade, Markakis signing, Dansby promotion, Cabrera promotion, not trading Julio at peak value...
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Dickey signing. Colon signing. Garcia trade. Phillips trade. SRod signing.

The Braves fancy themselves contenders for some reason, but are doing a terrible job adding guys that will actually help them contend.
 
Enscheff said:
Dickey signing. Colon signing. Garcia trade. Phillips trade. SRod signing.

The Braves fancy themselves contenders for some reason, but are doing a terrible job adding guys that will actually help them contend.
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you know as everyone knows, these guys are NOT here to 'contend'... they are here to prevent guys from being called up too soon. I firmly believe Coppy feels he screwed up by putting Folty, Wisler, Blair, others in the fire way too soon. he doesn't want to call up guys before they are ready. I have a feeling the 'good ole' boys were directly involved with Swanson. Pitchers are a different animal vs hitters.. so hopefully that doesn't bite us like others.
 
Enscheff said:
Dickey signing. Colon signing. Garcia trade. Phillips trade. SRod signing.

The Braves fancy themselves contenders for some reason, but are doing a terrible job adding guys that will actually help them contend.
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I don't see how you can be the service time guy and also hate on those moves. They are basically all place holders to keep guys down. S rod isn't enough money to matter and he was a decent upside play if he was healthy.

Everyone has to have some vets. I prefer mine on 1-2 year deals.

I still think we have a shot at flipping Garcia for more than we paid

For the other guys...we traded aybar last yr so anything is possible
 
Russ2dollas said:
I don't see how you can be the service time guy and also hate on those moves. They are basically all place holders to keep guys down. S rod isn't enough money to matter and he was a decent upside play if he was healthy.

Everyone has to have some vets. I prefer mine on 1-2 year deals.

I still think we have a shot at flipping Garcia for more than we paid

For the other guys...we traded aybar last yr so anything is possible
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I think a legitimate point of criticism regarding the Colon/Dickey/Garcia trifecta of moves is that the Braves were well out in front of the market in virtually every instance and paid handsomely for production that ultimately could have been found at lesser cost elsewhere. There is absolutely logic behind using 'flippable filler' instead of rushing the talent, but it would appear the Braves went with highly palatable premium filler as opposed to a lesser variety.

That being said, I'm not done with Colon/Dickey yet. Veterans have a way of warming up as the season progresses, and we shouldn't discount the fact that the book is still out on Suntrust and how to pitch there.
 
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