Well he gets on base more often and hits for more power, for starters.
WOW Uggla and BJ OUT! GDT 8/13
- Thread starter stpeteirish
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Well he gets on base more often and hits for more power, for starters.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Yeah anyone thinking Uggla is worse than Simmons should look at the numbers.
22 point OBP and 30 point slugging advantage.
parkvadawg
Still Playing the Waiting Game
Pretty simple. Gets on base more and slugs more. Scores more runs, drives more in.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
I am just glad that now that we have put them away we arent getting the "We are doomed the Nats are about to go on a roll" posts that happened every time they won 2 games in a row.
Forget those few percentage points. If you wanna talk numbers, who's more efficient in terms of salary? Andrelton at league minimum or Uggla at 15 million?
Andrelton's streaks are spread out more than Uggla and BJ who are either really hot or really cold. And even then we're talking 3-4 games.
Uggs may have a better slugging percentage (easily because of power), but his average with RISP is awful and I don't even want to check the numbers but he and BJ have k'd so much in pressure situations that I have more faith in Andrelton than either.
Those filler walks and homers Uggla hits do not make him a better hitter IMO. No different than someone post padding here and bragging about their post count. Results speak louder. Uggla on paper may be better but this is one of those times where it's more than meets the eye.
Andrelton's streaks are spread out more than Uggla and BJ who are either really hot or really cold. And even then we're talking 3-4 games.
Uggs may have a better slugging percentage (easily because of power), but his average with RISP is awful and I don't even want to check the numbers but he and BJ have k'd so much in pressure situations that I have more faith in Andrelton than either.
Those filler walks and homers Uggla hits do not make him a better hitter IMO. No different than someone post padding here and bragging about their post count. Results speak louder. Uggla on paper may be better but this is one of those times where it's more than meets the eye.
Nerfherders
Well-known member
Yeah outside of the series against the Braves, they are 9-3. Not that I am worried or anything.
This makes sense to me. But I hope that Simmons quits popping up and Dan can put the ball in play more often when he returns from DL.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
Simmons falling into the LH box on his swing. Braves need to have the CJ talk with Simmons. They don't need him to hit HRs. He has enough power that if someone makes a mistake he can hit it out by accident.
I think he could put up Prado type numbers if he embraces being a line drive hitter. Probably a tic below Prado, but in the same area.
I think he could put up Prado type numbers if he embraces being a line drive hitter. Probably a tic below Prado, but in the same area.
Dunit24
Awaiting a Promotion
They still have a shot at one of the wild card spots, but it was annoying seeing the media and some on here get worried every time that team won a few games in a row. If they go on a 10 game winning streak, it wouldnt surprise me. I doubt it happens though.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
All good points on the Uggla versus Simmons debate, but as the venerable Mr. Lockhart points out, salary has to be taken into account here. Uggla has turned into Jack Cust (who also had great years and suddenly fell off the table) and that's what he's probably going to remain and Jack Cust never came close to an 8-figure deal. Athletic guys who never learn skills languish in the minors. Unathletic skills-driven guys often see steep performance nosedives and I contend that's what we're seeing with Uggla. And whoever in this thread said that bat speed is relatively unimportant needs to watch the game more closely. I still contend that is Francoeur's largest problem (although swinging at EVERYTHING doesn't help) is that his problems really began when pitchers figured out the could get him out with inside fastballs as well as making him chase crap outside the strike zone. I don't know if it's his eyes or his bat speed, but if Uggla loses a tick of bat speed, he's done. If anything, the rest he'll get on the DL may help him more than the LASIK surgery.
Simmons is going to be an average-driven guy and I don't like his hitting fundamentals. He's all arms right now. Rangy guy (like Francoeur) who tends to dip and reach, which is never good. His glove will carry him, but it's obvious he's a great athlete and he should spend some time getting some serious instruction during the off-season.
Simmons is going to be an average-driven guy and I don't like his hitting fundamentals. He's all arms right now. Rangy guy (like Francoeur) who tends to dip and reach, which is never good. His glove will carry him, but it's obvious he's a great athlete and he should spend some time getting some serious instruction during the off-season.
You are correct about one thing, the results speak louder than words.
With RISP Simmons makes outs 75% of the time, Uggla makes outs 71.7% of the time. Simmons has 108 ABs with RISP with 24 RBI which is a ratio of .222. Uggla has 31 RBI in only 85 ABS with RISP, a ratio of .364.
The walks and homers do absolutely make him a better offensive player than Simmons, any way you add it up.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
They may go on a streak. They've got some players and the top 3 in their rotation are tough. We just need to take care of business on our end. It's like playing bar pool. Hit the shots you're supposed to and get lucky once and a while and you'll make some cash (which I never did).
Charlie Manuel is a true hillbilly. They used to make a big deal out of it when he played up here in Minnesota in the late-60s/early-70s. I know a hillbilly when I see one because even though we don't have hillbillies in Minnesota, we do have a similar redneck breed, of which my extended family was pretty firmly ensconced.
We're paying Uggla to be a power slugger.
We're paying Andrelton more so to be an amazing defender who might learn how to hit.
Andrelton's defense makes up AND some for his sub-par hitting. Uggla's offense does not even out his terrible atrocious defensive liabilities.
I am by no means an anti-stathead, and I'm sure not a boy Scout, but the problem I find with relying heavily on statistics sometimes, is that we have to remember the statistics are just looking for a common denominator with neutrality and average. Upton has 22 homers this season. We've played 4.5 months, so statistically he's hitting 4.8 hr/month. When we all know damn well here that Justin was terrible for 3 months, and dominant for 1.5.
Uggla's production has been in very very short spurts. His walks are nice, but we're not exactly paying him to walk, we're paying him to slug and slug. His OBP isn't why we hired him. Uggla the last month has been terrible.
With runners on, would you rather take the chance Uggla strikes out (very likely), or Andrelton makes contact and pops it up far enough to sac fly? I don't know the statistics, but if the gap between Uggla striking out with runners on, and Andrelton making contact in that situation is +-5%, I still take Andrelton.
You're defending the fact that Uggla makes outs 4.3% of the time less than Andrelton with RISP. Is 4.3% really that significant? And watching this season, would you rather take the chance Uggla K's, or Andrelton makes contact and potentially could fly out?
We're paying Andrelton more so to be an amazing defender who might learn how to hit.
Andrelton's defense makes up AND some for his sub-par hitting. Uggla's offense does not even out his terrible atrocious defensive liabilities.
I am by no means an anti-stathead, and I'm sure not a boy Scout, but the problem I find with relying heavily on statistics sometimes, is that we have to remember the statistics are just looking for a common denominator with neutrality and average. Upton has 22 homers this season. We've played 4.5 months, so statistically he's hitting 4.8 hr/month. When we all know damn well here that Justin was terrible for 3 months, and dominant for 1.5.
Uggla's production has been in very very short spurts. His walks are nice, but we're not exactly paying him to walk, we're paying him to slug and slug. His OBP isn't why we hired him. Uggla the last month has been terrible.
With runners on, would you rather take the chance Uggla strikes out (very likely), or Andrelton makes contact and pops it up far enough to sac fly? I don't know the statistics, but if the gap between Uggla striking out with runners on, and Andrelton making contact in that situation is +-5%, I still take Andrelton.
You're defending the fact that Uggla makes outs 4.3% of the time less than Andrelton with RISP. Is 4.3% really that significant? And watching this season, would you rather take the chance Uggla K's, or Andrelton makes contact and potentially could fly out?
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
This is really an eye-ball perspective from me, but when I watch the decline of a player (and walk and HRs aside, there's no doubt Uggla is heading South), I always try to surmise "Is the pitcher afraid to pitch to this guy?" When you see that fear subside, you'll know that the other side has recognized something and is going to exploit it. I think we all saw this happen to Andruw Jones and it's not pretty. We're seeing the same thing happen now in a much more compressed time frame with Uggla.
I have no problem with the stats movement (until it gets into multiple regression analysis), but the game is still played in real space in real time and teams scout their opponents incessantly. They watch the game as it is being played and see what is happening with players. Over time, they spot strengths and weaknesses and try to exploit identified weaknesses. That makes adjustments necessary and right now, it's pretty obvious that Uggla can't make those adjustments. Eyes? Bat speed? Who cares? The inability to consistently put the ball in play with authority speaks for itself.
Don't take this as an endorsement of Simmons' approach at the plate. He's going to have to make adjustments as well.
I have no problem with the stats movement (until it gets into multiple regression analysis), but the game is still played in real space in real time and teams scout their opponents incessantly. They watch the game as it is being played and see what is happening with players. Over time, they spot strengths and weaknesses and try to exploit identified weaknesses. That makes adjustments necessary and right now, it's pretty obvious that Uggla can't make those adjustments. Eyes? Bat speed? Who cares? The inability to consistently put the ball in play with authority speaks for itself.
Don't take this as an endorsement of Simmons' approach at the plate. He's going to have to make adjustments as well.
Is a 4.3% difference in outs made significant? In baseball, hell yeah it's significant. Is the difference in a .300 On base percentage and a .343 on base percentage, for example, significant? The difference in those numbers is that the guy with the .300 OBP makes outs 4.3% more often than the guy who has a .343 OBP.
Baseball is about runs--not hits. In any context you want to imagine Dan Uggla, despite a HORRIBLE batting average, produces more runs offensively than Andrelton Simmons, which is what this discussion is about--not salary or defense, both of which make Simmons more valuable to the team.
And yeah we did sign Uggla to the big contract to hit homers--and he has done so pretty dang well this year, to the tune of being 7th in the league in homers at the time he went on the DL.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
I think the Nats will make a run, but as long as the Braves win like we are supposed to its our division at the end. I'd say we hold them off and win the east with a 9 game margin.