Wren "dismissed" --

[yeezus]

I fully agree with this. To take Frank's side, NOBODY (not even the armchair know it alls on this board that the Braves don't employ) could have predicted the epic demise of Uggla/BJ. Perhaps in some way, but not as badly as they turned out.

Some here will say they knew BJ would be terrible, but they're lying. It was not a terrible move, at the time.
The move that at the time was the worst decision was signing CJ to the extension. It wasn't a terrible risk, because he came off a good season. But at the same time, his walk numbers are always terrible, especially compared to his Ks. Poor defense. He's a nothing player if he isn't getting very lucky. And he's been beyond terrible this year and a true lineup killer.

 

[50PoundHead]

I fully agree with this. To take Frank's side, NOBODY (not even the armchair know it alls on this board that the Braves don't employ) could have predicted the epic demise of Uggla/BJ. Perhaps in some way, but not as badly as they turned out.

Epic decline, yes. Absolutely no one saw this level of ineptitude on the horizon. That said, I thought they were both bad investments, especially given the supposed payroll situation. You just can't commit that much money to too few guys especially when it was unlikely they would hold their value through the term of the contract. Yeezus, the five years at $15 M per year were two years and $3 M per year too high. My frame of reference is Bourn got 4 years with a 550 PA option on a 5th year (which a team can pretty easily avoid) at a total contract value of $60 million if the contract were to run its course. B.J. Upton is not as good a player as Michael Bourn. Wren should have thrown an option year in the negotiations and walked away if he didn't get it. He should have done the same with Uggla and didn't. If you are a supposedly payroll-conscious team, that's how you have to do business. I frankly don't know how Liberty handles things, but we're under this impression that they are tight with the purse strings.

Wren did good and bad things. He had his shot and people who know a lot more about baseball than I ever will thought it was time for him to go. Bottom line, I simply don't Wren ventured outside the box a whole lot with his thinking.

 

[ChapelHillMatt]

Some here will say they knew BJ would be terrible, but they're lying. It was not a terrible move, at the time.

Yes it was, this team did not need another low avg/power bat. They already had that in Uggla. It was an awful signing and I said so at the time. Make matters worse we stole him from Washington. So we hurt ourselves and improved them at the same time.

 

[Enscheff]

I wanted Pagan, who signed a 4 year $40M contract with SF that same offseason. He has since put up a solid .350 OBP and .750 OPS.

Nobody could have predicted BJ would turn into the worst hitter in MLB, but he was a clear overpay the moment the contract was signed. He was very clearly a .240 hitter with a low .300 OBP hitter that could pop ~20ish HRs while striking out 160+ times by the time he left TB. The Braves roster was already full of guys like that, so why add another?

Uggla was one of the most consistent RHed power bats in the game at the time of his extension. The man was a virtual lock for 30+ HRs and a 800-850 OPS. At that point in time the Braves organization was desperate for RHed power, and Uggla theoretically filled that void perfectly. I honestly can't fault Wren for that trade and extension.

 

[Tapate50]

I wanted Pagan, who signed a 4 year $40M contract with SF that same offseason. He has since put up a solid .350 OBP and .750 OPS.

Nobody could have predicted BJ would turn into the worst hitter in MLB, but he was a clear overpay the moment the contract was signed. He was very clearly a .240 hitter with a low .300 OBP hitter that could pop ~20ish HRs while striking out 160+ times by the time he left TB. The Braves roster was already full of guys like that, so why add another?

Uggla was one of the most consistent RHed power bats in the game at the time of his extension. The man was a virtual lock for 30+ HRs and a 800-850 OPS. At that point in time the Braves organization was desperate for RHed power, and Uggla theoretically filled that void perfectly. I honestly can't fault Wren for that trade and extension.

How many games has Pagan missed ? Got to be a ton at this point.

 

[Braves78]

I had no problem with Wren in regards to players he signed, however like many here have said many other GMs have made terrible signings etc. Yet, he was such a torn in the side of other coaches, front office personal, players etc he had to go. I think that a GM like that prevents other talent whether it players or front office people from joining the organization and that is why they had to let him go. I think that is why JS kept repeating the Braves way needed to be reinvigorated and that had to do with Wren and how he deals with people not the players.

 

[Enscheff]

How many games has Pagan missed ? Got to be a ton at this point.

So you're saying Pagan getting injured would be worse than what BJ has produced for nearly double the price?

 

[Dalyn]

BJ missed games even when he played.

 

[Dalyn]

If we somehow unloaded him, we would have to trade two good players to replace him.

 

[BremanFan88]

Yes it was, this team did not need another low avg/power bat. They already had that in Uggla. It was an awful signing and I said so at the time. Make matters worse we stole him from Washington. So we hurt ourselves and improved them at the same time.

Well you also thought CJ was a "good hitter" so...

 

[clvclv]

A solution to contemplate: Make Fredi the Assistant GM combining the Manno/Fregosi roles. Would give a young GM an experienced baseball guy as his assistant and allow him to pick his own manager.

I kinda like this idea. If everyone's convinced Fredi is Bobby made-over, it couldn't do anything but help having JS, Hart, Bobby, and Fredi surrounding Coppolella if he's the choice - he's spent plenty of time around them and appears comfortable when they're giving him input.

I'd still love to bring in Varitek as a Manager and Sheffield as a hitting coach if they'd take the jobs - then the clubhouse vibe would certainly have more fire.

 

[clvclv]

BJ missed games even when he played.

LOL

 

[yeezus]

Yes it was, this team did not need another low avg/power bat. They already had that in Uggla. It was an awful signing and I said so at the time. Make matters worse we stole him from Washington. So we hurt ourselves and improved them at the same time.

If BJ performed at his averages over his last 3 years in Tampa, we'd be fine with it and it wouldn't be 1/4 of the disaster.

 

[Heyward]

For the Braves to win they need Jason, Freddie, Justin, and Gattis to hit, If they can't perform we're ****ed. If they do we're in it. This year they performed and we still sucked and Fredi has a lot to do with that with his **** lineups that set them up for failure.

Question, how many more wins do we have if Jason, Justin, FF, and Gattis is the top 4 all year?

MAYBE an extra 4-5.

The team just isnt as good as you others think it is, comes down to that.

Not because of Fredi who while isnt a great manager gets WAY too much hate around these parts.

 

[Dalyn]

Question, how many more wins do we have if Jason, Justin, FF, and Gattis is the top 4 all year?

MAYBE an extra 4-5.

The team just isnt as good as you others think it is, comes down to that.

Not because of Fredi who while isnt a great manager gets WAY too much hate around these parts.

Enough for this series against the Pirates to be huge.

 

[Heyward]

Uggla was one of the more consistent hitters in baseball, the 5th year hurts the most, but i dont think ANYONE thought he'd fall off like he has.

I knew he'd eventually decline but not to this extent.

Same with BJ.

Wren was good with trades.

Raped Arizona for JUp, good trade for Hanson with Walden, EOF waiver claims. Most of the time always had a solid bullpen.

The CJ extension i guess you COULD say was bad but technically it's only a 1-yr deal since he's under control for 2 more years after this year. It's basically a 1 yr, 10 mil option that they can pick up or not.

Needs heading into next year.

SP (Harang and Erv were SOLID this year), going to be hard to replace both with not much money to spend.
CF (BJ probably has to be traded, and we'll probably have to eat some other bad contract coming back)
Bench (Just has to improve, right now it's awful)
Regards to TLS, i think he's solid, between TLS/Peraza/Goss, that should be enough to be ok at 2B.

I dont think we need to blow it up but some changes have to be made.

 

[Heyward]

Enough for this series against the Pirates to be huge.

Sure, but would it really matter?

 

[Dalyn]

Sure, but would it really matter?

Wren would still have a job, at least for a few more days, which would explain why he wanted Fredi gone so badly.

 

[The Tariff King]

Even if Fredi is indeed gone, I think it's safe to assume that McDowell and Eddie Perez will stay on regardless of whom the new GM/Manager combo is. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie gets promoted to bench coach.

McDowell essentially has given himself a life contract with the work he's done the last 8 years. Eddie is going to have a job with the Braves forever even if he's not the bullpen coach. I think Bobby and JS would not let the new regime touch either McDowell or Eddie.

 

[buck75]

Even if Fredi is indeed gone, I think it's safe to assume that McDowell and Eddie Perez will stay on regardless of whom the new GM/Manager combo is. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie gets promoted to bench coach.

McDowell essentially has given himself a life contract with the work he's done the last 8 years. Eddie is going to have a job with the Braves forever even if he's not the bullpen coach. I think Bobby and JS would not let the new regime touch either McDowell or Eddie.

Agree