Yet Another Mass Shooting

yeezus said:
right because you consider early-term fetuses humans and many others do not.
yet when a grown child is starving, or lacking quality education, or not able to afford clothing, you couldn't care less.
see what I did there? we can all play the sturg game of hyperbole and bull****.
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when did sturg turn into this guy?
 
yeezus said:
right because you consider early-term fetuses humans and many others do not.

yet when a grown child is starving, or lacking quality education, or not able to afford clothing, you couldn't care less.

see what I did there? we can all play the sturg game of hyperbole and bull****.
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What hyperbole are you referring to?
 
Still wondering why I'm supposed to get upset with the NRA over this last gun shooting... Shouldn't be I upset at the shooter? I guess there's no political points in that
 
BedellBrave said:
1. Did he or his mom buy any of the guns used at a gun show? I don't know the answer.

2. Did he use automatic weapons? If so, if they had of been outlawed then I can see how it would have been harder for him to obtain - much like sawed off shotguns. Are they illegal in California and Oregon?

3. Wouldn't have worked at all with his mom from what I've read. Probably would have only driven her to get more.

4. I suppose this might help some. I also suspect that the higher the taxes go the more a black market will flourish.

5. Agree. I'm not sure if I've read whether or not either he or his mother were licensed. I guess if you enacted 1-4, someone of a mind would go the hunter route though.
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The premise of your question was flawed but I gave you an answer anyway. It's not about what would have stopped this specific incident but what are the things that will change the availability of guns in general.

Next the culture and violence promoting entertainment industry should be addressed.

And certainly our war mongering foreign policies play a role too.

The culture is also too fragmented. We need more unifying, community promoting events and ceremonies. Religion plays this role but our religions have failed us so miserably and have been hijacked by crooks again. I can't believe I'm saying it but the country needs a new religion, one that is not tribally based.
 
yeezus said:
right because you consider early-term fetuses humans and many others do not.

yet when a grown child is starving, or lacking quality education, or not able to afford clothing, you couldn't care less.

see what I did there? we can all play the sturg game of hyperbole and bull****.
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What do they consider them? Are they dog fetuses? Cat fetuses? Chimpanzee fetuses? What exactly?
 
goldfly said:
yes, it finally got here

the broken home article finally came across your desk

an even more absurd angle to argue

is that how every other frist world country that has similar or worse divorce rates practically got rid of mass shootings? by not getting divorced?
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I must have hit a nerve and gotten to the point. Funny how you want to run away from such points. Why do liberals do that? And why are you such an either/or guy? I don't get that either. It is not like we can't have sensible controls on weapons and seek to address the social and mental health problems as well.
 
To a staggering degree, people don't even know why they do what they do. Assuming that society could point directly to the cause and simply fix it would be naive. Only thing worse than believing that would be doing nothing.
 
How might national background checks on private sales be instituted, implemented, and enforced? Oregon has such a law on the books. I just don't understand how it is actually suppose to work. Anybody got a clue?
 
Runnin said:
The premise of your question was flawed but I gave you an answer anyway. It's not about what would have stopped this specific incident but what are the things that will change the availability of guns in general.

Next the culture and violence promoting entertainment industry should be addressed.

And certainly our war mongering foreign policies play a role too.

The culture is also too fragmented. We need more unifying, community promoting events and ceremonies. Religion plays this role but our religions have failed us so miserably and have been hijacked by crooks again. I can't believe I'm saying it but the country needs a new religion, one that is not tribally based.
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I'm not sure it's flawed. I was just trying to make sure that what we suggest be something that might actually address cases like this. That's the thing I struggle with concerning some of the ideas tossed around each time other than just a total ban on personal firearms.

We are a huge and diverse nation. We aren't ever going to be like Japan or Sweden or the like. If we were a more homogenous people with a much more controlling national government maybe. Course we wouldn't be the USA then.
 
I've always considered myself to be a realist/pragmatist where gun ownership is concerned. I grew up in the midst of gun culture, though in a household where it was anathema. I think that, on balance, my home would be less safe with firearms under the roof, and I think that the smart money—the science, in fact—backs me up on that, but I allow for others who make a different calculation. I don't object to the idea of legal firearm ownership. What I object to is the interpretation of the second amendment—which is unique to the last 20 years or so—which holds to the idea that gun ownership is not a right which is rightfully and reasonably regulated, but is unfettered and unalloyed by context and circumstance.

Buying a hunting rifle or shotgun shouldn't be an unreasonable burden. Buying a gun for which the raison d'etre is perforating the internal organs of human beings should be a different question. Pretty much everywhere else in the world, it is. I don't know why it is so hard for us. Actually, I do know why, and it makes me want to vomit.
 
Julio3000 said:
I've always considered myself to be a realist/pragmatist where gun ownership is concerned. I grew up in the midst of gun culture, though in a household where it was anathema. I think that, on balance, my home would be less safe with firearms under the roof, and I think that the smart money—the science, in fact—backs me up on that, but I allow for others who make a different calculation. I don't object to the idea of legal firearm ownership. What I object to is the interpretation of the second amendment—which is unique to the last 20 years or so—which holds to the idea that gun ownership is not a right which is rightfully and reasonably regulated, but is unfettered and unalloyed by context and circumstance.

Buying a hunting rifle or shotgun shouldn't be an unreasonable burden. Buying a gun for which the raison d'etre is perforating the internal organs of human beings should be a different question. Pretty much everywhere else in the world, it is. I don't know why it is so hard for us. Actually, I do know why, and it makes me want to vomit.
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So you would ban hand guns and "assault" rifles?
 
57Brave said:
Over the course of 3-4 years I have yet to see anyone advocate proposals to deal with mental health, prison reform blah blah blah.
Or any of the empty alternatives ( along with prayer) thrown out everytime the conversation of regulating weapons comes up.

Ok Wes, what do we do about mental health?

City criminals ?
what that has to do with mass shooting not really sure . Plus with limits/regulation/ restrictions on the manufacture of weapons -- wouldn't it hinder a "thug" access??
Is "city criminals" a wink and nod for the "n" word ?

Prison reform ?
What does prison reform have to do with mass shootings?
Why not include VW doctoring emission reports ?
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I'm not a psychiatrist, but just personally feel we need more resources for the mentally ill. These I feel are the truly helpless in our society. We need to be a bit more open in regards to understanding who might be sociopathic and is this person a threat the harm society?

I'm discussing the idea of gun violence rather than mass murder, the former of which is much more prevalent in the US and especially in the inner cities, where they use illegal guns for the most part. Mass shootings make up a very small portion of gun related homicides in this country. I'll just ignore the "n" word comment as I think it's just a silly distraction not worth commenting further.

Prison reform... The vast majority of gun crimes that occur in this country are done by felons. So why are they going back out and committing crimes after they've served time? We need more rehablitation in this country. Let's rehabilitate felons, give them a job and keep them from wanting to commit crimes and murders.

I just feel like those ideas are much better than the idea of handing the mass murderer or whoever a shotgun or rifle rather than a handgun or quasi assault rifle with one or two less bullets and a slightly lesser firing rate. And that's just on the side of how to prevent gun violence rather than how to defend against gun violence.

And so your reply may be why are pubs not supporting these ideas? I agree with that, but I would counter with why are liberals supporting relatively pointless gun regulation laws as opposed to championing more realistic goals to curb gun violence like the ideas I've provided? I'm just done with these ideas that don't and haven't worked. Let's move on from pointless gun regulation that won't make a difference.
 
BedellBrave said:
I must have hit a nerve and gotten to the point. Funny how you want to run away from such points. Why do liberals do that? And why are you such an either/or guy? I don't get that either. It is not like we can't have sensible controls on weapons and seek to address the social and mental health problems as well.
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didn't hit a nerve at all

just had the same bs argument and "thoughts" come from (what i am guessing is the same article and would guess it came from drudge but i don't want to prejudge all the way) a friend a couple days ago and was curious how long it would take to make it here.

you finally made it here to push that same article about the the "connection of divorce" as if that is the reason this happens

what am i running away from in your mind?

i agree with you

i wish we did have sensible controls on weapons and do things to help the mentally ill.

they are 2 different issues and aren't usually tied together but both need addressing and should be regulated more and i am glad you agree that should happen
 
sturg33 said:
Oh... so you don't like it when the hypocrisy is on your side...

I'm shocked
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i have no side

as much as american bs politics thinks i do

but

do you really think those are comparable and do you really think i am being a hypocrite there?

one side is talking about how all live matters

the other says they are pro choice and i agree that people should have the option of to choice insurance and what they want to do business wise (to a degree obviously (and if you don't like it, you have to pay) and i am not sure why you might try to say that is a negative since you aren't for no regulations at all from previous conversations)

i will say my personal thoughts are for setting up a country to prosper in such a way you have to pay to allow it and we all prosper from that as well but this is where we disagree now i am guessing

but i am sure somehow in your thoughts i didn't answer the question or dodged the conversation or whatever you and [MENTION=68]BedellBrave[/MENTION] say from time to time
 
BedellBrave said:
How might national background checks on private sales be instituted, implemented, and enforced? Oregon has such a law on the books. I just don't understand how it is actually suppose to work. Anybody got a clue?
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if you are saying that doesn't work

aren't you just saying something you might agree with doing doesn't actually going to do anything?

so, what is the next step on something we could do to actually stop this from happening?
 
the best thoughts i have heard on the gun debate i think

[video=youtube;bHY48Q2UBVk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHY48Q2UBVk[/video]
 
weso1 said:
I'm not a psychiatrist, but just personally feel we need more resources for the mentally ill. These I feel are the truly helpless in our society. We need to be a bit more open in regards to understanding who might be sociopathic and is this person a threat the harm society?

This link. Reminded you opposed ACA. Cherry picking aside
http://aspe.hhs.gov/report/affordab...deral-parity-protections-62-million-americans

I'm discussing the idea of gun violence rather than mass murder, the former of which is much more prevalent in the US and especially in the inner cities, where they use illegal guns for the most part. Mass shootings make up a very small portion of gun related homicides in this country. I'll just ignore the "n" word comment as I think it's just a silly distraction not worth commenting further.

The "n" word comment is in line with everytime any form of gun regulation is brought up the false equiviancy of "inner city " violence is brought up. That term is so loaded ...
One reason for gun hoardng after the Obama election I've seen is the coming race war. Where "inner city" people have weapons and ... whatever.
Secondly, to limit weaponry in inner cities, limit the manufacturing of weapons. Supply and demand. If the supply is way way down, the demand (price) goes way way up.
Seems rather simple to me. No, my mentioning the topic of coded words is not a deistraction but an honest issue . About dishonest, code word driven notions.

Prison reform... The vast majority of gun crimes that occur in this country are done by felons. So why are they going back out and committing crimes after they've served time? We need more rehablitation in this country. Let's rehabilitate felons, give them a job and keep them from wanting to commit crimes and murders.

Where is the funding for this prison reform? This Congress won't even fix broken bridges let alone broken citizens.
I challenge you to put your vote where your wishes lie. And vote for candidates that favor funding meaning full prison reform. Indications fronm you over the years lead me to believe you are more likely to favor candidates of not funding ---- anything

I just feel like those ideas are much better than the idea of handing the mass murderer or whoever a shotgun or rifle rather than a handgun or quasi assault rifle with one or two less bullets and a slightly lesser firing rate. And that's just on the side of how to prevent gun violence rather than how to defend against gun violence.

As it stands now, background checks and waiting periods are pretty much all there is on the docket. Lets go to phase two after we get phase one accomplished

And so your reply may be why are pubs not supporting these ideas? I agree with that, but I would counter with why are liberals supporting relatively pointless gun regulation laws as opposed to championing more realistic goals to curb gun violence like the ideas I've provided? I'm just done with these ideas that don't and haven't worked. Let's move on from pointless gun regulation that won't make a difference.
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Like I said above, the only legislation on the docket are background checks and waiting periods.
Gun shows and taxing manufacturing etc as of today are like asing for a pony for Christmas

 
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