You get two FA signings and as many call-ups as you want; 2017 Lineup - Go

yeezus

yeezus

It's OVER 5,000!
I'm trying to stick to realistic signings, so I don't see Cespedes or even Desmond as realistic. I also think they will get too much for too long.

I also see a lot of uncertainty on the bench and in the pen, so I'm onyl going to list guys I feel confident will be there.

Sign Jason Castro 3 years/$18M

Sign Martin Prado 3 years/$36M

Lineup:

(1) 2B: Albies

(2) 3B: Prado

(3) 1B: Freeman

(4) SS: Swanson

(5) RF: Markakis

(6) CF: Inciarte

(7) C: Flowers/Castro

(8) LF: M. Smith

Bench: Jace, Adonis, Flowers/Castro

Rotation:

Teheran

Wisler

Gant

Folty

Jenkins/Perez/Whalen/(?) Could be another prospect

This would not be a good or contending team by any stretch. The yutes will obviously struggle a good deal, at different or the same times. But, at least we'd be watching young players with potential. I think a healthy Inciarte would be more fun to watch, and seeing Swanson/Albies/Mallex every day would be better than what we're getting right now.
 
yeezus said:
I'm trying to stick to realistic signings, so I don't see Cespedes or even Desmond as realistic. I also think they will get too much for too long.

I also see a lot of uncertainty on the bench and in the pen, so I'm onyl going to list guys I feel confident will be there.

Sign Jason Castro 3 years/$18M
Sign Martin Prado 3 years/$36M

Lineup:

(1) 2B: Albies
(2) 3B: Prado
(3) 1B: Freeman
(4) SS: Swanson
(5) RF: Markakis
(6) CF: Inciarte
(7) C: Flowers/Castro
(8) LF: M. Smith

Bench: Jace, Adonis, Flowers/Castro
Rotation:

Teheran
Wisler
Gant
Folty
Jenkins/Perez/Whalen/(?) Could be another prospect

This would not be a good or contending team by any stretch. The yutes will obviously struggle a good deal, at different or the same times. But, at least we'd be watching young players with potential. I think a healthy Inciarte would be more fun to watch, and seeing Swanson/Albies/Mallex every day would be better than what we're getting right now.
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I like what you have but would do the lineup a little differently.

LF Smith
SS Swanson
1B Freeman
3B Prado
RF Markakis
C Flowers/Castro
CF Inciarte
P
2B Albies

I'd add Francoeur to the bench, and probably D'Arnaud as well.

They'll probably add a low-cost veteran arm for the rotation. Would love to see them resign Miller if he's non-tendered.
 
I think the outline sketched in the opening post is a good starting point. I suspect the front office will also spend some on a reliever (maybe Storen as a buy low option with some upside) to help out in high leverage situations and will also consider bringing back guys like Gordon Beckham and Kelly Johnson as bench players.

How many wins could we expect? Wins above replacement projections (mine) by position:

Catcher(2), first(4.5), second(1.5), short(1.5), third(3), left(1.5), center(3), right(1.5). Total of 18.5 from the lineup.

Among the starters: Teheran (4), Wisler(1.5), Folty(1.5), Gant(1), Other(0.5). Total from rotation 8.5.

Pen and bench: 4

Total WAR: 31

Team of replacement players is 48. So we would be at about 79.

ymmv
 
Martin IS the ideal two-hole hitter. I love how simplistically everyone falls into their roles with him there.

If there was any possible way to add Cespedes and take out Markakis, this lineup isn't half bad.

(1) 2B: Albies
(2) 3B: Prado
(3) 1B: Freeman
(4) LF: Cespedes
(5) SS: Swanson
(6) CF: Inciarte
(7) C: Flowers/Castro
(8) LF: M. Smith
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Martin IS the ideal two-hole hitter. I love how simplistically everyone falls into their roles with him there.

If there was any possible way to add Cespedes and take out Markakis, this lineup isn't half bad.

(1) 2B: Albies
(2) 3B: Prado
(3) 1B: Freeman
(4) LF: Cespedes
(5) SS: Swanson
(6) CF: Inciarte
(7) C: Flowers/Castro
(8) LF: M. Smith
Click to expand...

I like this, except I think you broke the rules with 3 FA (castro, cespedes, prado).

What i'd like to see us do is pay big next year in order to get guys on shorter and cheaper deals. If they will agree to 4/60. Then Give them 20,15, 15, 10. Earlier we have more cash. Later we need to extend guys and it makes these guys more tradeable or less dead weight. Or let there be options later.

I'd like to see some decent guys on 2-3 year deals in LF, 3B, C.

IF swanson and albies are up I don't want them to have a ton of pressure and I want them to play in some competitive games.

But with Mallex, Inciearte, Albies, and Swanson as starters....you have some cheap starters. Overpay for the vets now why we can, if we can keep them on short deals. Do NOT sign anyone on the market right now to more than 3 years (unless they are team options).
 
Russ2dollas said:
I like this, except I think you broke the rules with 3 FA (castro, cespedes, prado).

What i'd like to see us do is pay big next year in order to get guys on shorter and cheaper deals. If they will agree to 4/60. Then Give them 20,15, 15, 10. Earlier we have more cash. Later we need to extend guys and it makes these guys more tradeable or less dead weight. Or let there be options later.

I'd like to see some decent guys on 2-3 year deals in LF, 3B, C.

IF swanson and albies are up I don't want them to have a ton of pressure and I want them to play in some competitive games.

But with Mallex, Inciearte, Albies, and Swanson as starters....you have some cheap starters. Overpay for the vets now why we can, if we can keep them on short deals. Do NOT sign anyone on the market right now to more than 3 years (unless they are team options).
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Yes. This is my preferred method as well. What player doesn't want more money upfront? It could be a good strategy as well as selling tool. It also makes them easier to trade down the road like we had planned on doing with Grilli.

I'd even throw in an opt out on a longer contract if the numbers made sense, and depending on the new pick compensation rules.
 
Gotta include trades.

If we can...

1.) Vizcaino and Inciarte for Randal Grichuk, Harrison Bader, Carson Kelly, and Nick Plummer.

2.) Newcomb, Sims, and Acuna for Matt Moore.

3.) Sign Justin Turner for 3/$45 million.

4.) Sign Wilson Ramos for 3/$45 million.

2B- Albies
SS- Swanson
1B- Freeman
3B- Turner
RF- Markakis
LF- Grichuk
C- Ramos
SP
CF- Mallex

Bench: Flowers, Peterson, d'Arnaud, Garcia

Rotation: Julio, Moore, Folty, Wisler, Gant/Blair/Jenkins/Perez

Pen: Minter, Cabrera, Simmons, Withrow, Krol, Cervenka, Janas, Paco/Marksberry

Trade Markakis for an extra pen piece whenever Bader or Peterson is ready.
 
I don't agree on us not being in play for the Cespedes/Desmond types, honestly. We're gonna have a buttload of payroll space and a protected first rounder. Whether or not they'll get overpaid, I think we'll be heavily in play.
 
Here's the thing...if the Braves are only going to spend a total of $50M this offseason on FAs, then keeping Teheran was a huge mistake. They either need to address all 4 positions of need (3B, LF, C and vet SP) this offseason, or they need to continue the rebuild and unload Teheran. They can't try to straddle both lanes and squander yet another valuable year of Teheran's control.

So since you didn't say anything about trades:

Sign Castro to a 3-4 year deal.
Sign David Freese to a 2-3 year deal (I prefer his power to Prado's, and he should be cheaper)
Trade for Braun.
Trade for Matt Moore (though certainly not at the price clv offered).

2B - Albies
SS - Swanson
1B - Freeman
LF - Braun
3B - Freese
RF - Markakis/Inciarte (whichever isn't traded)
C - Castro/Flowers
P - Teheran/Moore/Folty/Wisler/young guys
CF - Mallex

I would expect ~30-35 WAR from those guys plus 4-5 from the BP and bench, putting the Braves at about 82-88 wins and right on the fringe of the WC race.
 
clvclv said:
Gotta include trades.

If we can...

1.) Vizcaino and Inciarte for Randal Grichuk, Harrison Bader, Carson Kelly, and Nick Plummer.

2.) Newcomb, Sims, and Acuna for Matt Moore.

3.) Sign Justin Turner for 3/$45 million.

4.) Sign Wilson Ramos for 3/$45 million.

2B- Albies
SS- Swanson
1B- Freeman
3B- Turner
RF- Markakis
LF- Grichuk
C- Ramos
SP
CF- Mallex

Bench: Flowers, Peterson, d'Arnaud, Garcia

Rotation: Julio, Moore, Folty, Wisler, Gant/Blair/Jenkins/Perez

Pen: Minter, Cabrera, Simmons, Withrow, Krol, Cervenka, Janas, Paco/Marksberry

Trade Markakis for an extra pen piece whenever Bader or Peterson is ready.
Click to expand...

There's a lot we disagree on at times, but this would be a fantastic and would keep the farm system in tact, even arguably strengthen it. Still not sure if the Cards do that... that's quite a bit of talent.
 
Enscheff said:
Here's the thing...if the Braves are only going to spend a total of $50M this offseason on FAs, then keeping Teheran was a huge mistake. They either need to address all 4 positions of need (3B, LF, C and vet SP) this offseason, or they need to continue the rebuild and unload Teheran. They can't try to straddle both lanes and squander yet another valuable year of Teheran's control.

So since you didn't say anything about trades:

Sign Castro to a 3-4 year deal.

Sign David Freese to a 2-3 year deal (I prefer his power to Prado's, and he should be cheaper)

Trade for Braun.

Trade for Matt Moore.

2B - Albies

SS - Swanson

1B - Freeman

LF - Braun

3B - Freese

RF - Markakis/Inciarte (whichever isn't traded)

C - Castro/Flowers

P - Teheran/Moore/Folty/Wisler/young guys

CF - Mallex
Click to expand...

I like this... we'd still have Braun 3.5 more years with a club option. He's likely to at least be decently productive during the first couple years. Freese would be a good buy this offseason, although I'm not sure he will be as cheap after such a resurgent year. I'd still rather have Ramos than Castro if we're going the FA route for catcher, but I worry about his health. This is pretty much the first year Ramos has been healthy for most of the year. I just have a hard time getting excited about Castro... still living off potential and hasn't realized any of it. Matt Moore is a no brainer... he'll be expensive but he hasn't completely bounced back yet, so maybe he won't be off the chain. His stuff is just nasty. Would love to trade Newcomb and some younger raw offensive talent for him.
 
clvclv said:
Gotta include trades.

If we can...

1.) Vizcaino and Inciarte for Randal Grichuk, Harrison Bader, Carson Kelly, and Nick Plummer.

2.) Newcomb, Sims, and Acuna for Matt Moore.

3.) Sign Justin Turner for 3/$45 million.

4.) Sign Wilson Ramos for 3/$45 million.

2B- Albies

SS- Swanson

1B- Freeman

3B- Turner

RF- Markakis

LF- Grichuk

C- Ramos

SP

CF- Mallex

Bench: Flowers, Peterson, d'Arnaud, Garcia

Rotation: Julio, Moore, Folty, Wisler, Gant/Blair/Jenkins/Perez

Pen: Minter, Cabrera, Simmons, Withrow, Krol, Cervenka, Janas, Paco/Marksberry

Trade Markakis for an extra pen piece whenever Bader or Peterson is ready.
Click to expand...
I like this. The lineup would be solid and the rotation isn't bad. I think Moore is a bit overrated by many, but he's young and dependable.
 
zbhargrove said:
I like this... we'd still have Braun 3.5 more years with a club option. He's likely to at least be decently productive during the first couple years. Freese would be a good buy this offseason, although I'm not sure he will be as cheap after such a resurgent year. I'd still rather have Ramos than Castro if we're going the FA route for catcher, but I worry about his health. This is pretty much the first year Ramos has been healthy for most of the year. I just have a hard time getting excited about Castro... still living off potential and hasn't realized any of it. Matt Moore is a no brainer... he'll be expensive but he hasn't completely bounced back yet, so maybe he won't be off the chain. His stuff is just nasty. Would love to trade Newcomb and some younger raw offensive talent for him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Braves certainly aren't getting Freese for $3M this offseason. He should still be a 2+ WAR player for the next couple years, and he most likely will not have a QO attached (if that's even a consideration with the new CBA).

My issue with Ramos is that he is clearly the best option on the FA market, and will get an inflated contract much like Desmond and Ces. Ramos has had one good season, this season, and I wouldn't pay him $15M+ per year based on this one good season.

Castro is pretty crappy, but he is less crappy than everything else available to the Braves. He is an excellent receiver, and that will be useful with such a young rotation. He is LHed with traditional platoon splits, so he will make a good platoon partner with Flowers. He should be cheap, and he almost certainly will not have a QO attached. Now that Cervelli was extended by the Pirates, Castro is my #1 option at C this offseason. He would be the first FA I signed if I were in charge. He will likely transition to a backup in a couple years when Flowers moves on.
 
Enscheff said:
Yeah, the Braves certainly aren't getting Freese for $3M this offseason. He should still be a 2+ WAR player for the next couple years, and he most likely will not have a QO attached (if that's even a consideration with the new CBA).

My issue with Ramos is that he is clearly the best option on the FA market, and will get an inflated contract much like Desmond and Ces. Ramos has had one good season, this season, and I wouldn't pay him $15M+ per year based on this one good season.

Castro is pretty crappy, but he is less crappy than everything else. He is an excellent receiver, and that will be useful with such a young rotation. He is LHed with trditional platoon splits, so he will make a good platoon partner with Flowers. He should be cheap, and he almost certainly will not have a QO attached. Now that Cervelli was extended by the Pirates, Castro is my #1 option at C this offseason. He would be the first FA I signed if I were in charge.
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This isn't really true. Ramos had a 111 wRC+ in 2011 and 113 in 2013. Overall, he's a league average (not average for a catcher) hitter. The intriguing thing about Ramos is that he blames much of the struggles int he last 2 years to his eyesight and got it fixed over the offseason. So, there is a possibility that you are going to get some really solid hitting years over the next 2-4 years. (not 2016 level, but 115-125 might be reasonable) And he's solid behind the dish.

The problem is he's going to get overpaid because the FA class in general is a bag of trash and the catching class is even more so (and he has injury history). He probably goes for way more than 3/45, but 3/45 would be a steal. I would say he gets 5/60 ish range.

Signing Ramos makes a heck of a lot more sense than trading for Lucroy.
 
gilesfan said:
This isn't really true. Ramos had a 111 wRC+ in 2011 and 113 in 2013. Overall, he's a league average (not average for a catcher) hitter. The intriguing thing about Ramos is that he blames much of the struggles int he last 2 years to his eyesight and got it fixed over the offseason. So, there is a possibility that you are going to get some really solid hitting years over the next 2-4 years. (not 2016 level, but 115-125 might be reasonable) And he's solid behind the dish.

The problem is he's going to get overpaid because the FA class in general is a bag of trash and the catching class is even more so (and he has injury history). He probably goes for way more than 3/45, but 3/45 would be a steal. I would say he gets 5/60 ish range.

Signing Ramos makes a heck of a lot more sense than trading for Lucroy.
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Solid behind the dish? He has been credited with negative framing runs this year and last (then I stopped looking).

Someone is going to overpay dramatically for Ramos and his 1 amazing season. I would guess 5/60 is the absolute floor on his next contract. I bet he comes in just under Martin's 5/82 contract. And since he is so young, I wouldn't be shocked if some team went to 6 years. No thanks.

But I agree, he makes more sense than Lucroy, even with the insane contract he is about to sign.
 
Enscheff said:
Solid behind the dish? He has been credited with negative framing runs this year and last (then I stopped looking).

Someone is going to overpay dramatically for Ramos and his 1 amazing season. I would guess 5/60 is the absolute floor on his next contract. I bet he comes in just under Martin's 5/82 contract. And since he is so young, I wouldn't be shocked if some team went to 6 years. No thanks.

But I agree, he makes more sense than Lucroy, even with the insane contract he is about to sign.
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He's essentially a neutral pitch framer this year (could be due to eyesight), but throws a high percentage of runners out and doesn't allow many passed balls or wild pitches.
 
Wish we could have more than 2 FA signings as long as we arent going for the big guns like Cespedes but heres my best attempt.

Sign Bartolo Colon 1 year - not sure how much it would take. Just want him to eat innings at the back end of the rotation so we dont have to rush Sims and Newcomb. I think if you put a good defense behind Colon he will be a decent SP for us. Best case scenario some of our young pitching prospects break out and we could trade Colon mid season. Worst case we lose no payroll flexibility beyond 2017.

Sign Carlos Gomez 1 year - I think he will take a 1 year deal to rebuild his stock.

25 man opening day roster
----------------------------------

Teheran
Foltynewicz
Wisler
Colon
Gant

Vizcaino
Simmons
Cervenka
Minter
Cabrera
Withrow
Jenkins

Flowers
Anyone

Freeman
Albies
Swanson
Ruiz
Garcia
Beckham - not counting resigning him to a small 1 year deal as a FA signing.
Peterson

Gomez
Mallex
Inciarte
Markakis -

Lineup
-----------------------
2B Albies
SS Swanson
1B Freeman
CF Gomez
RF Inciarte
C Flowers
3B Ruiz/Adonis/Beckham platoon
LF Mallex

Depth prospects likely to see the major at some point in 2017
-------------------------------------------------------
LF Dustin Peterson
SP Lucas Sims
SP Sean Newcomb
SP Rob Whalen
RP Jason Hursh
SP Max Povse
SP Chris Ellis
 
zbhargrove said:
He's also had a history of not being able to stay healthy
Click to expand...

Wilson Ramos was a severely below average hitter the last two years combined - gets an excuse.
Predictions have him slightly above average from this point on.
Not spending big on that guy. He's some BABIP luck from going closer to his 63 wRC+ last year.
 
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