Zimmerman Trial

zitothebrave said:
I never said that Zimmerman confronted Martin, no one except Zimmerman or Martin knows what went on before blows were exchanged as the point where Martin was on top of ZImmerman is where the first eye witness came in. Though everyone admits there was a verbal exchange of some sort. For all we know Zimmerman did start the altercation, or maybe Martin did, unfortunately we'll never know cause the only other person involved is dead.

But that wasn't the point I was contesting. I was contesting your point that ZImmerman was "getting out to check a house number" which clearly wasn't the case if you have half a brain. Unless Martin whooped his ass from the street, then they got into a verbal altercation between people's houses, then Martin whooped his ass back there, which I consider highly unlikely.
Click to expand...

There is no evidence that Zimmerman was doing anything other than getting a house number. It's said on the tape.
 
Julio3000 said:
Hmmm.

I'm a little bummed out by your take on this, BB. I expect more from you, I guess.
Click to expand...

Go ahead and elaborate. What do you want said? As I've repeatedly stated, both Martin and Zimmerman erred. And yet, there's nothing in this case that's been disclosed that warrants anything but acquittal. It's a tragedy all around.
 
zitothebrave said:
If someone started a fight with me I would fight back. I'd never assume they had a gun or knife they'd pull on me if they started losing.
Click to expand...

What you would have done or not done is immaterial. You've got a guy that's getting his arse kicked and he defends himself with his gun. He thinks its self-defense. How do you prove it was otherwise? If it wasn't point blank, if there weren't wounds on Zimmerman, if someone hadn't seen Martin on top, then maybe. But the case was what it was and the evidence was what it was.
 
If there is any evidence to contradict what Zimmerman said I am willing to hear it.

That's exactly what I'm saying. There is no evidence to contradict it. That's part of the essential weakness of the state's case. That being the case, why wouldn't you assume that Zimmerman's story—since it has evolved since it was first told—has been shaped to fit the narrative that would support his self-defense argument? Nobody else knows except the dead guy. The witness saw Zimmerman getting the worst of the fight for a few seconds, but did not see who initiated the confrontation nor how the altercation developed. It was enough to prevent him from being convicted of murder—which, as I said, is appropriate—but nothing more than that.

So if your in a neighborhood that has had several burglaries and you see someone leisurely walking through the grass when its raining and looking at the houses thats not suspicious?

I don't know. Are you seeing what you think you're seeing? Are you seeing someone behaving suspiciously, or just seeking shelter from the rain? The point is, you don't know. Zimmerman thought he did.

That there had been crime in the neighborhood still doesn't excuse what Zimmerman did. Neither does it explain why Zimmerman made the assumption that the kid was a criminal. He identified him as a black teenager and referred to him as a "****ing punk" and stated—before PURSUING HIM—that "these assholes always get away."

Not a single time that Zimmerman called the cops did he physically try to stop the suspect and there is zero evidence that he tried that with Trayvon.

Irrelevant. Plus, he got out of the car and followed him when he ran. How is that inconsistent with trying to stop him?

Whether you think Zimmerman acted irresponsibly or not does not mean he had to let Trayvon beat the **** out of him. Who knows how bad his injuries would be if he didnt shoot him.

Sure, play that game all day. Who knows? Maybe Trayvon would have killed him with his bare hands. Whatever. If you want to believe that this guy was anything other than an irresponsible clown and a menace to the community that he was ostensibly protecting, that's up to you. Just know that you're basing your opinion on only one side of the story, and whatever darkness apparently lies in your own heart, if you choose to believe that the fact that they fought somehow proves that Z was justified in pursuing him.

You said that Martin's allegedly attacking him proved that he was right to follow him. If he was justified in using deadly force in the fight, wouldn't Martin have been justified in protecting himself if he were confronted by an armed guy? If Zimmerman attempted to restrain him or went for his gun, wouldn't Martin have been justified for hitting him, or jumping on him if he went down? The dude had a gun and was stalking him. There's no evidence that it happened that way, but there's only Zimmerman's testimony to indicate that it didn't.

That is what makes them racist to me.

As for racism—some people (of different races and backgrounds) were justifiably upset because it appeared that the person who is arguably responsible for the confrontation was not being held responsible for his actions. They felt that he should have been arrested and charged. It's not a crazy, unreasonable belief, nor is it racist.
 
And it's just another glaring example of journalistic malfeasance.

And too many people rushed to judgment. And now aren't willing to admit it. So they keep hammering away.

Are young black men profiled? Yes. Is there a discussion needed about that in our society? Yes. Do race-baiters at times have a point? Yes. But not here. They (Sharpton and his ilk) and the press (ready to make hay on this one) and POTUS for flapping his mouth and all their willing accomplices jumped the shark.
 
What's wrong with profiling? Law enforcement officials all around the world do it every day. I don't like it and wish it wasn't the case, but there's a reason why people who dress a certain way or act a certain way are singled out. It's because previous trends suggest they might be doing something wrong. Is that always the case? Absolutely not.
Should GZ go to prison for killing TM? I don't know, you don't know, Jessie Jackson sure doesn't know. The law says that the prosecuting had to prove it without a reasonable doubt. There was absolutely no where near enough evidence to convict him for murder. That's why the police didn't arrest him in the beginning. The media is probably the only reason he even faced a trial. As we all know, any time a white guy kills a black guy, he only did it because he was black.
 
Didn't say profiling was wrong. Just that it happens and a discussion is needed.

No, GZ, shouldn't go to prison for killing Martin, based on the evidence presented. As you say the prosecution in no way proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

After all this show, the jury determined the same thing the police did originally.
 
BedellBrave said:
Go ahead and elaborate. What do you want said? As I've repeatedly stated, both Martin and Zimmerman erred. And yet, there's nothing in this case that's been disclosed that warrants anything but acquittal. It's a tragedy all around.
Click to expand...

I think we both agree that, based on the self-defense standard and lack of eyewitness to the confrontation, a verdict of "not guilty" is appropriate.

You've been, er, charitable enough to say that Zimmerman erred. But you've been pretty rigorous about making the statement that both people were at fault. (Note that I don't say "both men.") You seem to uncritically accept Zimmerman's version of events.

Do you think that, regardless of acquittal of a murder charge, Zimmerman was the motive force behind Martin's death? Do you think that Zimmerman told the whole truth? Do you think it was sad or just for the defense and the RW media to portray Martin as a thug?
 
BedellBrave said:
And it's just another glaring example of journalistic malfeasance.

And too many people rushed to judgment. And now aren't willing to admit it. So they keep hammering away.

Are young black men profiled? Yes. Is there a discussion needed about that in our society? Yes. Do race-baiters at times have a point? Yes. But not here. They (Sharpton and his ilk) and the press (ready to make hay on this one) and POTUS for flapping his mouth and all their willing accomplices jumped the shark.
Click to expand...

So I guess you're definitely going with an opinion that race played absolutely no part in this?

The only thing that made this a questionable charge was the relatively low bar for self-defense in Florida. In many other jurisdictions, it could have been quite different.

But you're seriously gonna say that even though the prosecution overreached with a murder charge, that there was no reason to arrest him? For anything? After he followed and ultimately killed a pedestrian?
 
I've been inside all day, scared of the !!ZOMG!! RIOTS that talk radio told me were going to happen if Zimmerman were acquitted.
 
gtcway said:
What's wrong with profiling? Law enforcement officials all around the world do it every day. I don't like it and wish it wasn't the case, but there's a reason why people who dress a certain way or act a certain way are singled out. It's because previous trends suggest they might be doing something wrong. Is that always the case? Absolutely not.
Should GZ go to prison for killing TM? I don't know, you don't know, Jessie Jackson sure doesn't know. The law says that the prosecuting had to prove it without a reasonable doubt. There was absolutely no where near enough evidence to convict him for murder. That's why the police didn't arrest him in the beginning. The media is probably the only reason he even faced a trial. As we all know, any time a white guy kills a black guy, he only did it because he was black.
Click to expand...

Everyone profiles, even I on skinheads and those with numerous tats and bald heads and my own race. I don't trust anyone at anytime.
 
gtcway said:
At least you discriminate equally :) I'm white and I like to think I do as well.
Click to expand...

Oh I do, more than you know. I trust people on here more than I do in the real world. I even trust Steak Sauce and not carry a weapon if were around him. I am always vigilant on my surroundings if you are black, white or muslim, you are going to get profiled by me, even more so if I have my family with me.
 
Just think if Zimmerman had to go through a thorough background check before being given a carry permit (let alone be allowed to purchase)

Trayvon would be alive and y'all be talkin' bout how Obama is the devil

That's as civil as it gets today
 
57Brave said:
Just think if Zimmerman had to go through a thorough background check before being given a carry permit (let alone be allowed to purchase)
Trayvon would be alive and y'all be talkin' bout how Obama is the devil

That's as civil as it gets today
Click to expand...

I hate to admit, but Steak Sauce is right. I don't think he would have gotten one.
 
Julio3000 said:
I've been inside all day, scared of the !!ZOMG!! RIOTS that talk radio told me were going to happen if Zimmerman were acquitted.
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw these black people looting a moving van today, taking all the stuff with their names into an apartment! Must be section 8 too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top