Around Baseball Offseason Edition - Derek Jeter will retire at seasons end

[Hawk]

You lost me here.

Mike Rizzo called him a "baseball rat" on SiriusXM this afternoon -- there's got to be some intrigue in that.

[jpx7]

Mike Rizzo called him a "baseball rat" on SiriusXM this afternoon -- there's got to be some intrigue in that.

I've always been amused that sports form the only venue I can think of whereabout "rat" is a superlative and not a pejorative.

[ramadon101]

http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/royals-making-big-push-for-yankees-target-beltran/

He's in KC, so I just assumed they were the ones who made the offer. Where are you hearing the Mariners?

Nevertheless, curious that Kansas would even be willing to make that move. Especially if it would require them moving Butler for payroll flexibility (as The Post insinuates.)


Olney:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/407944563991408640

It's probably between KC and Seattle. NYY are a dark horse only because Beltran likes NY, but they won't offer as much as the other two.

[Hawk]

Eric Hinske named Cubs new 1B coach. Happy for him.

[Heyward]

Rays trade for Heath Bell and Ryan Hanigan (plan to sign him to an extension though)

Salty to the Marlins.

Mariners apparently big players for Cano.

[Julio3000]

Glad to see Hinske pick up that gig.

[Julio3000]

I've always been amused that sports form the only venue I can think of whereabout "rat" is a superlative and not a pejorative.

Rizzo just means that he's a carrier of baseball fleas, which are a primary vector of baseball plague, and, thusly, should be avoided like . . . well, you know.

[Heyward]

Gregerson/Seth Smith swap.

A's bullpen is ridiculous.

[gilesfan]

If there was a crappy utility guy, I mean scrappy utility guy that wasn't called a baseball rat, I would be very disappointed.

[Hawk]

@Buster_ESPN: Other teams becoming convinced that Carlos Beltran is going to land with the Royals, on a deal of 3/$48 million.

http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/407994657658789888

[The Chosen One]

Crazy. Yankees looked to have been favorites, but I guess the Royals are the only ones willing to give 3 guaranteed years with that much money.

[nsacpi]

We're seeing rich teams pay more per year, and the poor teams willing to go out extra years. Not sure this is a smart approach for the small budget teams.

[Hawk]

Astros get Dexter Fowler from Colorado for Jordan Lyles and Brandon Barnes.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Colorado Rockies ‏@Rockies 51s
#Rockies have acquired RHP Jordan Lyles & OF Brandon Barnes from @astros in exchange for Dexter Fowler and a PTBNL.

[Hawk]

Solid move for Houston.

[emk418]

Astros get Dexter Fowler from Colorado for Jordan Lyles and Brandon Barnes.

Wow how did they get Fowler that cheap?

[nsacpi]

Wow how did they get Fowler that cheap?

The Rockies and Tigers should have answered each other's phone calls and done Fowler for Fister. It would at least have had some alliterative value.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Marlins and Jarrod Saltalamacchia close on a three year deal

[The Chosen One]

Marlins and Jarrod Saltalamacchia close on a three year deal

Always seemed like an inevitability. What's even more inevitable is he probably will get traded at the deadline.

[Hawk]

Looks like the Rockies bargained too hard with Fowler last offseason. IIRC he was one the Braves' original choices for CF, but Colorado wanted a massive haul.

[Bdawg2309]

damn, the stove is heating up

[Heyward]

Looks like the Rockies bargained too hard with Fowler last offseason. IIRC he was one the Braves' original choices for CF, but Colorado wanted a massive haul.

Yep, they asked for Minor AND Julio plus some other players.

Ridiculous.

[Heyward]

Ellsbury supposedly going to take a physical with the Yankees tommorow.....

Nothing confirmed but jeez, money talks.

[emk418]

Ellsbury supposedly going to take a physical with the Yankees tommorow.....

Nothing confirmed but jeez, money talks.

Where do you see that?

[Heyward]

Where do you see that?

https://twitter.com/search?q=jacoby%20ellsbury&src=typd

Not sure how true though....

[Perfect Cell]

Wish we would have gotten salty

[skidlee]

Troy Renck ‏@TroyRenck 3m

#rockies are closing in on 2 yr deal w Morneau. Some wrinkles to iron out. But in final stages

[skidlee]

I am shocked at how busy its been today.

[The Chosen One]

I am shocked at how busy its been today.

Same here, is it the Winter Meetings already?

[Hawk]

To add more fuel to the Ellsbury to NYY rumor Heyward posted earlier, Jon Heyman: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24325803/ellsbury-getting-close-to-a-sevenyear-deal-with-the-yankees

Star free agent outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury is in serious talks with the Yankees and the sides appear to be close to reaching a seven-year deal. sources said.

"It could happen," said someone familiar with the talks.

It is believed the deal would exceeed Carl Crawford's $142-million, seven-year deal.

[Hawk]

I wonder if they are bluffing Cano, or are ready to kiss him off?

[skidlee]

I don't think they are bluffing. They are not going to bid against themselves and right now they would be.

[Heyward]

Wish we would have gotten salty

I'd rather not, he's not that good.

[Perfect Cell]

hes worth the 7m hes getting


anyways Ellisbury to the yanks is done

[skidlee]

I'd rather not, he's not that good.

He is ok but Gattis will hit much better then him and they are about equal with the glove.

[Heyward]

I wonder if they are bluffing Cano, or are ready to kiss him off?

They arent going to wait on Cano, and watch all the top FA's go off the board.

After Beltran/Mac/Cano/Choo/Ellsbury, etc, it gets REAL thin.

[yeezus]

With all of this happening so quick, I could see Cano pricing himself out of the market, like Bourn did last year. Teams will not talk if you want 260 mil.

[Hudson2]

Wow it's been a super busy day. May not be much goin on at the WM's with a lot of big names off the board.

[emk418]

Wish we would have gotten salty

Why he's not good? Not saying it's a bad contract but I would much rather go with Gattis.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Looks like the Yankees are back to their old ways.

Ellsbury deal is seven years, $153M:mad0182:

[Perfect Cell]

Why he's not good? Not saying it's a bad contract but I would much rather go with Gattis.

I think him or AJ would have been fine stop gaps till Victor Carratini and I would have used Gattis or Betancourt to trade for another pitcher.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 16m
Source: Any deal with Jacoby Ellsbury or an outfielder does not preclude Yankees from re-signing Robinson Cano. Still very much in play.

Good grief! If they find room to sign Cano as well...............................:facepalm:


However, aside from Sabathia, who's pitching for them?

[emk418]

Looks like the Yankees are back to their old ways.

Ellsbury deal is seven years, $153M:mad0182:

That's insane. $20M a year for 7 years for a 30 year old injury prone speed guy.

[skidlee]

I think him or AJ would have been fine stop gaps till Victor Carratini and I would have used Gattis or Betancourt to trade for another pitcher.

For one thing we would need more then a stop gap. Also I don't think the braves view Victor as a catcher. He never played one inning this year as a catcher.

We have other areas of need before signing a catcher to a deal.

Gattis is good enough.

I would still use Betancourt in a trade. I don't think his bat will ever come around.

[skidlee]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 16m
Source: Any deal with Jacoby Ellsbury or an outfielder does not preclude Yankees from re-signing Robinson Cano. Still very much in play.

Good grief! If they find room to sign Cano as well...............................:facepalm:


However, aside from Sabathia, who's pitching for them?


They still want to sign a pitcher or 2.

[skidlee]

Ray Flowers ‏@BaseballGuys 4m

#yankees are what's wrong with baseball. #dodgers pretty close. Just throwing money at a problem

Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing 1m

Yanks pay $22m a yr for Ellsbury, electric player who, in last 4 yrs, has played 18, 158, 74, 134 games. What a country.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Leave it to an NFL analyst to put how insane the Ellsbury deal is...............

Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing 58s
Yanks pay $22m a yr for Ellsbury, electric player who, in last 4 yrs, has played 18, 158, 74, 134 games. What a country.

[skidlee]

I don't want to do this but I bet we could get a pretty darn good return for one of our good OFers right now.

[Heyward]

I think him or AJ would have been fine stop gaps till Victor Carratini and I would have used Gattis or Betancourt to trade for another pitcher.

Salty isnt that good, not very good defensively, ok on offense but not better than Gattis.

Would of liked AJ on a 1-yr deal but not the end of the world.

[Heyward]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 16m
Source: Any deal with Jacoby Ellsbury or an outfielder does not preclude Yankees from re-signing Robinson Cano. Still very much in play.

Good grief! If they find room to sign Cano as well...............................:facepalm:


However, aside from Sabathia, who's pitching for them?

They made a 1 year, 15-16 mil deal for Kuroda sometime this week......

But pitching is their big need.

They'll bid big on Tanaka if it gets through.

[skidlee]

and people are seeing why the braves are moving to cobb county. Gets buts in the seats so we can have more cash to work with.

[Heyward]

I don't want to do this but I bet we could get a pretty darn good return for one of our good OFers right now.

Probably could, would it be worth it though?

[skidlee]

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 1m

If Yankees exercise option, Ellsbury deal would be worth $169M, the ninth-biggest contract in baseball history: http://yhoo.it/1ca6E9T

[skidlee]

Probably could, would it be worth it though?

doubt it. The braves have a 2-3 year window to win a WS. After that it going to be another few years of tough times IMO. Might as well try it while your in it.

[thethe]

Lets go sign Cano. 6 years 144M.

[skidlee]

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 49s

Blue Jays get Erik Kratz and Rob Rasmussen from Phillies in the Lincoln deal. Kratz is a good defensive catcher.

[drewdat]

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 49s

Blue Jays get Erik Kratz and Rob Rasmussen from Phillies in the Lincoln deal. Kratz is a good defensive catcher.

Checked and yep, .829 OPS vs. the Braves vs. .688 overall. Good riddance.

[thethe]

Wonder whats happening with the Braves. Wren is usually an active GM. Is he hamstrung my ownership or is he more worried about retaining the talent already on the team?

[Heyward]

Wonder whats happening with the Braves. Wren is usually an active GM. Is he hamstrung my ownership or is he more worried about retaining the talent already on the team?

Maybe a little of both, not like he needs to do much.

[thethe]

I expected the Braves to spend some money this offseason. With the move to Cobb Country and the fact that we don't have many long term committments I would have swore we were spending money. I wonder if the Yankees move on from Cano can we make an offer. You might want to make a big move like that to excite a fan base going into a new stadium in a couple of years.

[Heyward]

A lot of bullpen options out there.

Bard, Bailey, Wright, Axford.

None should cost a whole lot.

[gcbraves]

Every time baseball has extra money coming in to the sport owners go on a spending binge and then turn around three years later lamenting the "economics" of the game and crying poor mouth. It's ridiculous everytime it happens, but the absurd amounts being paid to players has reached mind boggling proportions. Can't blame any player though, they would be idiots to turn it down.

[Russ2dollas]

I don't see anyone out there I want Wrenn to sign. I'd love Beltran or Choo, but we don't have anywhere to put them.

I think there are a lot of vet starters and bullpen arms that are similar. So Wrenn will wait and sign one of them for cheap when the game of musical chairs gets tight.

I think we need a big move. But if we do (and I don't think we will) it will be via trade or trades.

Given FW's track record and baseball in general....I'm not sure I want us signing any FA more than a 1-2 years. I'd rather us do our long term solutions via trade.

[skidlee]

nevermind

[CrimsonCowboy]

Rockies and Justin Morneau close to a two year, $13M deal

[CrimsonCowboy]

Per Rosenthal, the Reds are unlikely to trade Brandon Phillips

[CrimsonCowboy]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 14m
#Yankees close to signing Kelly Johnson to a 1-yr about $2.75-3M. Plan is to play a lot around diamond, potential 2b option if Cano leaves

[thethe]

Really sucks how much money some teams have in comparison to others. I just don't see how mlb can say this is competitive balance.

[ChapelHillMatt]

What's funny is the Yankees best teams were when they built from within as opposed to going on a spending spree.

They still need pitching.

[zitothebrave]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 14m
#Yankees close to signing Kelly Johnson to a 1-yr about $2.75-3M. Plan is to play a lot around diamond, potential 2b option if Cano leaves

Would be a fantastic signing. Except that we have Pastor who I think can hit not too much worse I would love him.

[NinersSBChamps]

Morneau is gonna rake in Coors Field. He was such a promising talent before that concussion a few years back.

[kendiz]

Would be a fantastic signing. Except that we have Pastor who I think can hit not too much worse I would love him.

(My first post here. Amazing site!! Thanks to weso1 for the email over at Scout...wish I had seen it a few months ago. :facepalm:)


Anyway, this signing would hurt a lot. Still love KJ, and I was hoping we'd get him back.

[Tapate50]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 14m
#Yankees close to signing Kelly Johnson to a 1-yr about $2.75-3M. Plan is to play a lot around diamond, potential 2b option if Cano leaves

I had read they have an offer out to Infante as well. If they sign KJ, does that dry up Infante's market just a bit?

[The Chosen One]

(My first post here. Amazing site!! Thanks to weso1 for the email over at Scout...wish I had seen it a few months ago. :facepalm:)


Anyway, this signing would hurt a lot. Still love KJ, and I was hoping we'd get him back.

Welcome! Glad to have you on board! :tchop:

[gilesfan]

He is ok but Gattis will hit much better then him and they are about equal with the glove.


Salty is a better player than Gattis. Im not sure where you guys come up with this stuff.

[zitothebrave]

Better fielder yeah. Not sure if I'd call him a better player. Gattis you don't know what he'll do over the course of a full season. So far he seems to not be able to stay healthy (which is why I think he'll wind up trade bait or supersub) but you don't know where he could wind up. Offensively there's tons of potential there.

[nsacpi]

Salty is a better player than Gattis. Im not sure where you guys come up with this stuff.

Steamer projects Gattis at 4.1 WAR in 2014 and Saltalamacchia at 1.7 WAR.

[thethe]

Salty is a better player than Gattis. Im not sure where you guys come up with this stuff.

In what aspects is he better?

[ramadon101]

Steamer projects Gattis at 4.1 WAR in 2014 and Saltalamacchia at 1.7 WAR.

Gattis is a better player than Salty, period. The fact that Giles even thinks it is up for debate is silly.

[thethe]

Gattis is a better player than Salty, period. The fact that Giles even thinks it is up for debate is silly.

Are you really shocked? Not that Gattis is a given at this point but he has already made GF look incredibly foolish.

[CyYoung31]

Giles gonna Giles.

[The Chosen One]

Can Salty throw out runners? I remember in Texas he had a huge mental block to where Ron Washington had to remove him from catching.

Gattis doesn't throw as good as McCann or D-Ross but he's still pretty slick behind the plate.

[gilesfan]

I don't have faith in players that have 1 baseball skill. (power, in this case) Certainly there is a chance that he breaks the mold and can translate a lack of plate awareness but huge power into a capable starting catcher, but I don't believe it will happen. Ideally, he'd be an AL DH type that can catch periodically.

From fangraphs, both positive and negative. (in my opinion we are making a mistake thinking he's an everyday catcher)

"As with most players, there are some real red flags when looking toward 2014, but they come with some positive signs as well. Brian McCann is a free agent and there is no guarantee that the Braves resign him, but they still could. If that were the case, Gattis would once again be a back-up, and given his horrid defense in left field, it would likely take an injury to McCann to ensure Gattis receives nearly 400 plate appearances again.

Next, Gattis’ plate approach is rather poor. With a 21/81 BB/K ratio, he was impatient and struck out too often given his walk rate. His minor league strikeout rates were much better, providing some optimism, but his 12% SwStk% was well above the league average. He’ll have to cut down on his swings and misses to have any chance of improving his strikeout rate. Aside from an inability to make consistent contact, Gattis apparently enjoys going fishing. By that, I mean that he loves to swing at pitches outside the strike zone. His 42.1% O-Swing% would have ranked seventh highest in baseball if he qualified. That is going to lead to pitchers rarely throwing him a strike, hurting his chances of taking a walk and limiting his ability to drive the ball and hit for power.

Line drive rates in small samples aren’t particularly meaningful, but while I’m questioning Gattis’ plate approach, it’s worth noting that his 14.5% LD% and 44.6% FB% are additional pieces of evidence that his approach doesn’t appear to be one that leads to long term success. Of course, we have to remember that this is a 27-year-old who recently got back into baseball after many years off. So just like any older player in the minors, we need to heavily adjust his minor league numbers when projecting his future MLB potential. It’s possible that this is who Gattis is and although he has power, that’s really all he brings to the plate.

I did promise some good news and that comes from two areas. First, the power is for real. His batted ball distance ranked 43rd in baseball at 293 feet, which is very good and matches up with a 17% HR/FB ratio. Furthermore, his BABIP was just .255. His xBABIP was actually just .264, but as mentioned above, his batted ball mix was rather poor. This may certainly be his true talent level with a repeat on the way, but it also seemingly can’t get much worse. Hence, there’s a lot more upside here than downside. That means that he’s not a lock to be a batting average killer.

There are many question marks surrounding Evan Gattis heading into next season. Given his journey to the bigs and with his playing time up in the air and issues concerning his approach at the plate, he’s a difficult man to project at the moment. His possible outcomes are likely all over the map, meaning that he could turn into a top five catcher or be a complete bust. Nothing would surprise me."

[nsacpi]

Sure there is more uncertainty about Gattis than most players. But it isn't crazy or silly to say that odds are he'll be better than Saltalamacchia in 2014.

[50PoundHead]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1 14m
#Yankees close to signing Kelly Johnson to a 1-yr about $2.75-3M. Plan is to play a lot around diamond, potential 2b option if Cano leaves

I thought Johnson would be a nice fit for us, but I still can't get over the goo-goo eyes a lot of fans in here still have about him. I can remember after the season when one poster here (can't remember which) thought Kelly had earned a huge payday this past season, which obviously he didn't. He's a nice player who had a couple of promising years earlier in his career that weren't exactly a mirage, but didn't pave the way to the stardom some thought he was destined for simply because he could take a walk. That said, I still would have liked him in Atlanta as a LHH would can play numerous positions and serve as insurance in the event Chris Johnson comes back to earth.

That's a nice contract for the Marlins with Saltalamacchia. $7 M per is affordable and Saltalamacchia is a pretty good player. I think it's probably a coin-flip between Saltalamacchia and Gattis, but I don't think gilesfan is that far off on Gattis. He IS a question mark going forward. I don't see how anyone could truly contend otherwise. As well as he played in 2013, there are a few warning signs, particularly his OBP, that should at least give us pause.

[bravesnumberone]

Ellsbury is a good player, but that's a grossly absurd contract.

[diamondsyd]

I can remember after the season when one poster here (can't remember which) thought Kelly had earned a huge payday this past season, which obviously he didn't. Johnson comes back to earth.

You might be thinking about me, but my contention was i thought he would get about 3 million per for 2 years and I did not want to committ that to him.

[ramadon101]

You might be thinking about me, but my contention was i thought he would get about 3 million per for 2 years and I did not want to committ that to him.

Gattis was a rookie and acted like one. He was getting tons of pub, and felt like he needed to hit a HR every night to carry the team especially when our bats went cold. Pitchers started exploiting his aggressiveness (as they should at the MLB level), and he didn't adjust quickly. That's not a knock, it's typical of first year players across the league and across time. I'd put more stock in his minor league walk numbers than I would half a season of ABs when he was over anxious to do damage at the plate and up in the bright lights for the first time in his life (literally.. since he's always been an underdog).

I think anyone who underestimates Gattis is due for a surprise. It may not come in 2014, but I think, barring injury, it will come. He will learn to chase fewer pitches outside of the strike zone and as a result, connect with more pitches within the strike zone... and when he does, watch out.

[emk418]

I like Salty. He's a decent player. But his career best offensive season was comparable to Gattis' rookie season. There's more upside in Gattis' bat to me and both are barely average defensively. I take Gattis making $500K over Salty at $7M. I even take Gattis over Salty if the money is the same.

[50PoundHead]

You might be thinking about me, but my contention was i thought he would get about 3 million per for 2 years and I did not want to committ that to him.

No it was someone else. I think I said I'd give him the same he got this year and someone said that wasn't going to be nearly enough and that he'd be in the $3 M to $4 M range. Looks like the Yanks are going to get him for less than half a million more than what he was paid in 2013, which still puts him below $3 M.

Don't get me wrong. I think Johnson is a good player, but at this point, he's settled into what he's going to be (which truth be told is a pretty valuable cog on a good team).

[Perfect Cell]

Kelly Johnson at least has had a better career than Ryan Langerhans which many posters pegged for being the better player than KJ

[50PoundHead]

Kelly Johnson at least has had a better career than Ryan Langerhans which many posters pegged for being the better player than KJ

True that.

[Perfect Cell]

Gattis is a better player than Salty, period. The fact that Giles even thinks it is up for debate is silly.

I don't agree. But the fact that its Gattis making 500k him better. Having said that if it meant being able to trade gattis for an upgrade to the rotation then its salty

[ramadon101]

I don't agree. But the fact that its Gattis making 500k him better. Having said that if it meant being able to trade gattis for an upgrade to the rotation then its salty

Once again, what makes Salty a better player than Gattis?

Salty's best offensive season matches Gattis's rookie year. Do you really believe Gattis will regress in 2014?

Gattis was one of the best catchers at pitch framing last year. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid= No question he's got a ton of room for improvement on other areas of catcher defense, but it's not like Salty is Yadier Molina ver. 2.0.

As you note, Gattis makes a fraction of what Salty makes in 2014 (and for the foreseeable future).

Gattis has way more power than Salty.

[Perfect Cell]

. Do you really believe Gattis will regress in 2014?

No question he's got a ton of room for improvement on other areas of catcher defense,
.



these 2 things are the biggest things for me. Plus I would have liked us have made a try at David Price from the Rays. The Rays were clearly looking at help at C and we could have used Gattis or Betancourt to make a package for Price.

[thethe]

these 2 things are the biggest things for me. Plus I would have liked us have made a try at David Price from the Rays. The Rays were clearly looking at help at C and we could have used Gattis or Betancourt to make a package for Price.

That plus another 3 of our top 7-10 prospects. I'm wary of pitchers with lots of mileage that are apart to get paid.

[Tapate50]

That plus another 3 of our top 7-10 prospects. I'm wary of pitchers with lots of mileage that are apart to get paid.

Agree.

[ramadon101]

these 2 things are the biggest things for me. Plus I would have liked us have made a try at David Price from the Rays. The Rays were clearly looking at help at C and we could have used Gattis or Betancourt to make a package for Price.

But your desire for Price has nothing to do with whether Gattis is a better overall player than Salty... it merely has to do with your preferred roster configuration of utilizing Gattis as part of a larger package for Price and then signing Salty as his replacement. It doesn't mean Salty is a better player than Gattis.

I still contend that Gattis is the better player. I think he will take two steps forward in 2014... the power is real, and he chased an absurd amount of pitches outside of the zone last year. To me, that only portends as a positive in 2014 since I think he will work on being more selective (a trait he exhibited throughout the minors) and consequently improving his overall average, OBP% and power numbers.

[Heyward]

Can Salty throw out runners? I remember in Texas he had a huge mental block to where Ron Washington had to remove him from catching.

Gattis doesn't throw as good as McCann or D-Ross but he's still pretty slick behind the plate.

He cost them two games in the WS by airmailing two throws.

Salty if better than Gattis isnt 8+ million better.

[zbhargrove]

Are you saying that you see Garza as comparable to pFister?

Actually, I'm saying Fister is BETTER than Garza... Garza is so overrated its not even funny. A constant injury liability who has the raw stuff but can't harness it consistently. Fister is more efficient and more consistent.

Career MLB ERAs:

Fister: 3.53
Garza: 3.83

If we were going by minor league careers, Garza would be better... but this is the majors and Fister has come into his own while Garza has regressed

ON TOP of the fact that Fister is a better MAJOR league pitcher... Garza was also a RENTAL... the Fister trade was a steal and its not even close.

[zbhargrove]

Salty is a better player than Gattis. Im not sure where you guys come up with this stuff.

LMAO... not a chance! In no universe... IMO, its not even really close. But you've been putting your foot in your mouth about Gattis for about 2 years now, so I understand you're trying to save face but just admit you were wrong about him and we can move on.

[zbhargrove]

Sure there is more uncertainty about Gattis than most players. But it isn't crazy or silly to say that odds are he'll be better than Saltalamacchia in 2014.

And its not like Salty has really had many good years... actually last year was his only decent year... the only full time year where he hit over .235. Gattis posted a .771 OPS in his first year, better than any year of Salty's play except for last year (and even then, their years were very close). And Gattis, IMO is a much better defender.

[Heyward]

3:07pm: The Mariners may have topped the Yankees' offer to Cano, a source tells Anthony McCarron of the New York Daily News. That same source indicated to McCarron that the Mariners are pursuing Cano "guns-a-blazing," and making the pitch to Cano that he can either be a Yankee legend or be a baseball legend by helping the Mariners win their first World Series.

Per MLBTR....

[nsacpi]

3:07pm: The Mariners may have topped the Yankees' offer to Cano, a source tells Anthony McCarron of the New York Daily News. That same source indicated to McCarron that the Mariners are pursuing Cano "guns-a-blazing," and making the pitch to Cano that he can either be a Yankee legend or be a baseball legend by helping the Mariners win their first World Series.

Per MLBTR....

We're lucky that our farm system allows us to avoid doing things like that.

[Heyward]

We're lucky that our farm system allows us to avoid doing things like that.

I wouldnt mind Cano, he's one my favorite non-Braves but not at the price he's asking.

With them adding Ellsbury/McCann, im not sure why he wouldnt take a little less and compete for championships there. But if he all he wants is money, more power to him.

[Enscheff]

Why in the world would you play for the Mariners over the Yanks just to earn a few million more dollars? What in the world is he going to buy for $200M that he can't buy for $180M?

I will never understand why these guys who are already filthy rich choose to play for a terrible team just to become a tiny bit filthier.

[jpx7]

Why in the world would you play for the Mariners over the Yanks

Well, as a place to live: Seattle > New York — at least for certain persuasions.

[stpeteirish]

I had read they have an offer out to Infante as well. If they sign KJ, does that dry up Infante's market just a bit?

That'll be funny to have another team's fans argue about who is better, KJ or Infante. But they need Prado to make it complete.

[Tapate50]

That'll be funny to have another team's fans argue about who is better, KJ or Infante. But they need Prado to make it complete.

You reckon we could flip Chris Johnson back for Prado?

(He said halfway serious?!?!?!)

[Dalyn]

You reckon we could flip Chris Johnson back for Prado?

(He said halfway serious?!?!?!)


You should do something about that half of you before it spoils the other half.

[depley]

I am still trying to figure out in what Universe Ellsbury is worth 21M a year. Leave it to the Yankees to skew numbers for all the teams with lesser payrolls. Just watch them drop another 100M on that Japanese pitcher.

[The Chosen One]

I am still trying to figure out in what Universe Ellsbury is worth 21M a year. Leave it to the Yankees to skew numbers for all the teams with lesser payrolls. Just watch them drop another 100M on that Japanese pitcher.

It's funny how the TV shows are debating "Can the Yankees afford Cano after they just gave Ellsbury that contract?" Little do people forget the Yanks also just gave McCann 80 million last week. lol

[jsebe10]

3:07pm: The Mariners may have topped the Yankees' offer to Cano, a source tells Anthony McCarron of the New York Daily News. That same source indicated to McCarron that the Mariners are pursuing Cano "guns-a-blazing," and making the pitch to Cano that he can either be a Yankee legend or be a baseball legend by helping the Mariners win their first World Series.

Per MLBTR....

Lmao. Get the fudge outta here. See "Rangers land AROD" articles for any future perspectives, Cano.

[Hawk]

I feel like Seattle would be better served going after Tanaka and some lesser offensive pieces than wasting money on Cano.

[yeezus]

I feel like Seattle would be better served going after Tanaka and some lesser offensive pieces than wasting money on Cano.

Most teams could use a player like Cano, though.

[kendiz]

Welcome! Glad to have you on board! :tchop:

Thank you!

[stpeteirish]

Well, as a place to live: Seattle > New York — at least for certain persuasions.

Yeah but most players really don't "live" in the cities they play in. They have off season homes in the place they're from, or a warm weather climate, or both. If they have kids they usually stay there during the season and come up to the Major League city for a few weeks in the summer. They're on the road half the time anyway; they usually just rent a place or even stay in hotel for the season. Maid service, y'know.

Cano might want to go someplace besides New York but I doubt it. Yankee's get everything they need in the big apple and they know how easy it is for the team to "reload" if they happen to have an off year.

[PawPawMaxwell]

KC traded LHP Will Smith for OFer Aoki from the Brewers. That would have been a nice pickup for us. Good leadoff hitter.

[nsacpi]

KC traded LHP Will Smith for OFer Aoki from the Brewers. That would have been a nice pickup for us. Good leadoff hitter.

Smith would have fit in well in our pen.

[NYCBrave]

KC traded LHP Will Smith for OFer Aoki from the Brewers. That would have been a nice pickup for us. Good leadoff hitter.

I know Aoki would have been a good fit for us, but we have no spot for him to start.

[NinersSBChamps]

We're lucky that our farm system allows us to avoid doing things like that.

2001 was the last time the Mariners won a playoff series. Oddly enough that was the same time the Braves advanced as well.

[nsacpi]

2001 was the last time the Mariners won a playoff series. Oddly enough that was the same time the Braves advanced as well.

I suppose we're different kinds of fans. I view the post-season as a crap shoot and derive more satisfaction from regular season success. I enjoy the intensity of post-season action but to me the regular season provides a better and more meaningful measure of a team's quality.

But hey vive la difference as the les francais would put it. I enjoy reading your recommendations of Ellsbury and Sizemore for center.

[NinersSBChamps]

I suppose we're different kinds of fans. I view the post-season as a crap shoot and derive more satisfaction from regular season success. I enjoy the intensity of post-season action but to me the regular season provides a better and more meaningful measure of a team's quality.

But hey vive la difference as the les francais would put it. I enjoy reading your recommendations of Ellsbury and Sizemore for center.

You don't get a ring for regular season wins. To each his own though.

You asked me for a realistic option for center field and I gave you Sizemore.

Back to MLB off season news. Tigers ink Joe Nathan.

[Heyward]

KC traded LHP Will Smith for OFer Aoki from the Brewers. That would have been a nice pickup for us. Good leadoff hitter.

Exactly where would he play, 2B?

Sorry, BJ isnt going anywhere regardless of what any of us think nor is he gonna sit on the bench all year.

[Heyward]

BoSox sign Mujica, 2 years/9.5 mil total, i would of done that if i was FW but oh well.

[nsacpi]

BoSox sign Mujica, 2 years/9.5 mil total, i would of done that if i was FW but oh well.

We are loaded from the right side. But we could use a lefty for the pen.

[Heyward]

We are loaded from the right side. But we could use a lefty for the pen.

Loaded, hardly.

Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter (who is due to regress) isnt loaded.

Can never have enough bullpen arms.

[nsacpi]

Loaded, hardly.

Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter (who is due to regress) isnt loaded.

Can never have enough bullpen arms.

I'm including personnel who have had success in the upper minors.

Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter, Gearrin, Varvaro, Hale, Martin, Northcraft, Schlosser, Graham, Vasquez, Obispo, Lamm, Jaime, Harper.

The list of lefties is much shorter.

Avilan, Buchter, Thomas, Gilmartin.

That's it. Venters can be added but he won't be ready for a couple months.

That's why I was saying a lefty for the pen is a higher priority.

[Tapate50]

O'Flaherty's market has been quiet. Maybe that is our move.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Exactly where would he play, 2B?

Sorry, BJ isnt going anywhere regardless of what any of us think nor is he gonna sit on the bench all year.
Would have looks a whole lot better on the bench than Shafer and since we dont have a quality 4th OFer Im sure Fredi could find time for him.

[nsacpi]

I think we have a decent group of backup outfielders: Schafer, Terdoslavich, Cunningham, Constanza.

[Heyward]

Would have looks a whole lot better on the bench than Shafer and since we dont have a quality 4th OFer Im sure Fredi could find time for him.

KC traded a good P whose under control for awhile, i doubt we could offer anything better.

I like our bench options for the most part though.

[PawPawMaxwell]

KC traded a good P whose under control for awhile, i doubt we could offer anything better.

I like our bench options for the most part though.

Last time I looked we have a pretty good load of pitchers and pitching prospects. Varvaro isnt that far from Smith only from the other side. And if you like our bench options I need to find a way to bookmark this until sometime next summer as a reminder of what you are possessing about here in December. Last I looked we dont have a bench.

[nsacpi]

Will Smith was really good last season. 11.6 K/9, 1.9 BB/9, 2.50 xFIP

Those are scrumptious numbers.

[Heyward]

Last time I looked we have a pretty good load of pitchers and pitching prospects. Varvaro isnt that far from Smith only from the other side. And if you like our bench options I need to find a way to bookmark this until sometime next summer as a reminder of what you are possessing about here in December. Last I looked we dont have a bench.

Between Pena, Laird, Schafer, Terdo, there are options for the bench.

As ncaspi said, Will Smith posted reallly good numbers, left handed RP options are extremely valuable.

[Bdawg2309]

mccann picked #34 because of EOF...... courting him to the yanks maybe?

[Heyward]

Mariners willing to pay Cano, 10 years, 230-240 million..

Per MLBTR.

[ramadon101]

Reports state Mariners have informed Cano's camp that they are willing to spend as much as $230-240M over 10 years for Cano.

My word.

[Heyward]

mccann picked #34 because of EOF...... courting him to the yanks maybe?

Hasnt been much of a market for EOF, but possible i suppose.

[jcc03004]

The Nats are interested in EOF please don't go there lol

[Heyward]

O'Flaherty's market has been quiet. Maybe that is our move.

Nats interested in signing him, that would suck.

[Hawk]

Furcal signs with Marlins.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Another ex-Brave goes to Miami. Rafael Furcal signs a one year deal with the Marlins.

[Hawk]

I feel like CrimsonCowboy is my Twitter doppelganger.

[Tapate50]

Wilson gets 10 million to be a set up guy in LA. Holy shat. 9 million option for another year. Wowza

[CyYoung31]

mccann picked #34 because of EOF...... courting him to the yanks maybe?

Where did you hear this?

[Hawk]

For thirteen regular season innings and a good postseason.

Yup.

*pets CK protectively*

[Tapate50]

Apparently Jay Z should stick to using old rock tracks for rap albums.

[depley]

Apparently Jay Z should stick to using old rock tracks for rap albums.

Why would anyone in their right mind offer 10 years to a 31 YO player? There is no way that works out for any team.

[Tapate50]

Why would anyone in their right mind offer 10 years to a 31 YO player? There is no way that works out for any team.

Why would you want to piss off your highest bidder and only competition to date?

[gcbraves]

Why would you want to piss off your highest bidder and only competition to date?

Because being that ugly and still managing to be married to Beyoncé would make anyone that arrogant.

[Tapate50]

Because being that ugly and still managing to be married to Beyoncé would make anyone that arrogant.

ZING!!!!!!

nice work.

[Hawk]

Wow. It's a done deal. 10 years, 240 million for Cano to Seattle.

Looks like you underestimated Hova ... again.

[CyYoung31]

Wow. It's a done deal. 10 years, 240 million for Cano to Seattle.

Looks like you underestimated Hova ... again.

Unbelievably stupid. He'll put a few more butts in the seats. That's about it.

[Hawk]

Unbelievably stupid. He'll put a few more butts in the seats. That's about it.

Agreed. The Yankees dodged a major bullet here it seems.

[CyYoung31]

Agreed. The Yankees dodged a major bullet here it seems.

The Yankees can do what they want, so it wouldn't really matter for them. For nearly every other team, it's an incredibly dumb move. For a team like the Mariners, it's bat-**** insane.

[nsacpi]

The Yankees can do what they want, so it wouldn't really matter for them. For nearly every other team, it's an incredibly dumb move. For a team like the Mariners, it's bat-**** insane.

The conventional wisdom is you can't concentrate too much of your payroll in one or two players. With Cano and Felix, the Mariners will definitely be testing that proposition.

[Hawk]

http://i.imgur.com/9TK0yBcl.png

[ChapelHillMatt]

This is hilarious, they signed McCann and Ellsbury and let their best player walk!!!

[Hawk]

The Yankees can do what they want, so it wouldn't really matter for them. For nearly every other team, it's an incredibly dumb move. For a team like the Mariners, it's bat-**** insane.

I just think about the ways they can reappropriate that money ... especially if A-Rod is also going to be off the books. :stupid:

[Tapate50]

Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times was told by an executive that they expect the Mariners' next move to be making a trade for David Price.
It makes sense, as the Mariners have been connected to Price and now appear ready to go for broke following the Robinson Cano signing. The M's will surely have to include top prospect Taijuan Walker in any deal, along with some other pieces. Price won't be a free agent until 2016, but he's due for another big raise in arbitration and seems likely to be dealt this winter.

[BRule]

Granderson to Mets, 4 years / 60 mil

[Tapate50]

M's are apparently looking at one of the FA OF's still out there. Notably Choo. They could really remake their roster in one year. Cano, Price or the big IFA pitcher to be posted (good landing spot for him in SEA)...

[sturg33]

Granderson to Mets, 4 years / 60 mil

Makes the BJ Uptopn contract look awful

[BRule]

Makes the BJ Uptopn contract look awful

Most things do

[thethe]

Upton will be better this year. I mean, he can't be worse right?

[BRule]

Upton will be better this year. I mean, he can't be worse right?

Would hope so but the fact that Granderson got 4/60 makes the BJ contract look worse than it already did.

[cajunrevenge]

Love seeing the Yankees fans tears watching their team get outbid for one of their home grown stars. My favorite is one guy who complains about the Yankee's attempt to get out of luxury tax hell by getting under 189 million payroll and says that they should have a 350 million payroll. Even with a 200 million dollar payroll someone still has the nerve to complain about the budget ownership sets.

[thethe]

I get what you are saying but lets see how the contract plays out before saying that. I like the deal for the mets but Granderson is strting to swing and miss a lot.

[ramadon101]

Granderson to Mets, 4 years / 60 mil

So the GMs are secretly having the winter meetings this week? What's left to do next week? Ride the rides at Disney?

[Heyward]

This is hilarious, they signed McCann and Ellsbury and let their best player walk!!!

Im a huge Cano fan, not sure they would of been smart to match that offer.

I saw they will go after Choo/Infante now.

[Heyward]

Would hope so but the fact that Granderson got 4/60 makes the BJ contract look worse than it already did.

Grandy will be 33-36 through that contract.

[BRule]

Grandy will be 33-36 through that contract.

And? You'd take BJ over him?

[bravebonebook]

O'Flaherty's market has been quiet. Maybe that is our move.

Nah, EOF is probably too expensive for the Braves; everybody else is...

And it really makes you stop when you realize Cano is going to receive a shade under a quarter of a Billion dollars to play the game in Seattle. Just 'Wow'!!

[Heyward]

And? You'd take BJ over him?

Never said that but Grandy has been declining the past couple years.

[sturg33]

Where the heck would Choo play in NY?

They already 5 outfielders.

[sturg33]

I also saw that Cano will be saving an additional $25 million in tax savings by playing in Seattle instead of NY

[tululush]

Probably. If for nothing else age and Grandy is going to start to regress with age. Don't forget he doesn't have that short porch in right anymore.


And? You'd take BJ over him?

[Heyward]

Where the heck would Choo play in NY?

They already 5 outfielders.

Choo
Ellsbury
Gardner

Soriano at DH

Ichiro for depth.

I would guess.

[tululush]

Lol that outfield is going to hit 35 home runs collectively.


Choo
Ellsbury
Gardner

Soriano at DH

Ichiro for depth.

I would guess.

[yeezus]

Lol that outfield is going to hit 35 home runs collectively.

Ellsbury hit 30 in one year by himself so...
Choo hit 21 last year.
They could hit 50-60 between them.

[Heyward]

Lol that outfield is going to hit 35 home runs collectively.

LOL, with the short porch?

Would be more, if it happened.

[The Chosen One]

Lol that outfield is going to hit 35 home runs collectively.

What I don't get, is players are not aging any better than they were 10 years ago.

Not everybody is like Chipper and can still put up solid numbers at 40, certainly not solid enough numbers to warrent that much money per year.

Cano will be 41... same as Pujols when he signed his deal with LAA.

[sturg33]

Choo
Ellsbury
Gardner

Soriano at DH

Ichiro for depth.

I would guess.

Vernon Wells?

[Heyward]

Vernon Wells?

LOL, well, i dont know.

Probably would dump one of Ichiro or Wells.

[BRule]

Ellsbury hit 30 in one year by himself so...
.

Fluke year and now has shoulder problems. Take out that ONE year and he has averaged 5.5 HRs per year for his career.

[KB21]

The market will eventually correct itself, but several folks will make a ton of mistakes with these contracts until it does.

[Hawk]

Phillies are shopping Papelbon, says Ken Rosenthal. Will be interesting to see what they want for him.

[NinersSBChamps]

Fluke year and now has shoulder problems. Take out that ONE year and he has averaged 5.5 HRs per year for his career.

Brady Anderson style. Averaged 19 a season, but had a season with 50. #Roids

[gtcway]

How many players are even in the big leagues let alone starting at age 40-41? Can't be many. 24 million/year for a bench player?


What I don't get, is players are not aging any better than they were 10 years ago.

Not everybody is like Chipper and can still put up solid numbers at 40, certainly not solid enough numbers to warrent that much money per year.

Cano will be 41... same as Pujols when he signed his deal with LAA.

[nsacpi]

What I don't get, is players are not aging any better than they were 10 years ago.

Not everybody is like Chipper and can still put up solid numbers at 40, certainly not solid enough numbers to warrent that much money per year.

Cano will be 41... same as Pujols when he signed his deal with LAA.

Since the money is spread out pretty evenly for those deals, it is a form of mortgaging the future for the present. Like George Allen trading away all the Redskins draft picks for veteran players.

[Tapate50]

Phillies are shopping Papelbon, says Ken Rosenthal. Will be interesting to see what they want for him.

:Gasp:


///sarcasm

[nsacpi]

Phillies are shopping Papelbon, says Ken Rosenthal. Will be interesting to see what they want for him.

Even for high payroll teams it is a vicious cycle when you top out on sustainable payroll and find yourself with an uncompetitive team. Attendance starts declining. You have a bunch of old players on long-term deals and little flexibility. Things getting rough in Philly.

[bravesnumberone]

Lol at those "experts" criticizing Jay-Z. Cano will be good, but the Mariners will regret it after a couple years.

[BRule]

Lol at those "experts" criticizing Jay-Z. Cano will be good, but the Mariners will regret it after a couple years.

They will probably regret the last 3 years but it's the AL and he will be able to DH. Cano is a great hitter, shows no signs of a decline like Albert did....IF they can land a combo of Choo/Cruz/Price then I really like their core going forward. Cano also has great numbers in SafeCo.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Rangers have agreed to a deal with former Blue Jays catcher J.P. Arencibia

[nsacpi]

They will probably regret the last 3 years but it's the AL and he will be able to DH. Cano is a great hitter, shows no signs of a decline like Albert did....IF they can land a combo of Choo/Cruz/Price then I really like their core going forward. Cano also has great numbers in SafeCo.

Albert was even greater and showed no signs of declining. Until he began declining.

[Bj1133]

Scott Feldman gets $30 million.....let that sink in for a minute....career 4.62 era......$30 million

[cajunrevenge]

Albert had his worst season in the majore his contract year including a really slow start to the season. That was the start of his decline.

The Feldman deal isn't that bad. Its just the Astros spending some to spend money. Its a relatively short deal that will expire before they are competitive.

[nsacpi]

Scott Feldman gets $30 million.....let that sink in for a minute....career 4.62 era......$30 million

2 WAR player. $10M/year is a good price.

[BRule]

Albert was even greater and showed no signs of declining. Until he began declining.

AVG/SLG/OBP all were on the decline over his last 2 years in STL, SLG% dropped nearly 160 points over that time.

[yeezus]

Albert had his worst season in the majore his contract year including a really slow start to the season. That was the start of his decline.

The Feldman deal isn't that bad. Its just the Astros spending some to spend money. Its a relatively short deal that will expire before they are competitive.

Yeah, Pujols had declining numbers and that contract year for him was by far his worst.
Cano has kept getting better.

[Hawk]

Even for high payroll teams it is a vicious cycle when you top out on sustainable payroll and find yourself with an uncompetitive team. Attendance starts declining. You have a bunch of old players on long-term deals and little flexibility. Things getting rough in Philly.

Philadelphia surely doesn't seem to be hurting much financially. They just gave $42MM to Carlos Ruiz and Marlon Byrd, and are about $30MM under the LTT ... reportedly gearing up to go after more starting pitching. If they move Papelbon it seems more to do with this free-for-all frenzy that is the open market than in-house fiscal maneuvering. I could definitely see a team like Texas, St. Louis, Baltimore, or NYY forking over some prospects AND taking his entire contract (which isn't so unreasonable, seeing as Brian Wilson just got $10MM to set up Kenley Jansen.)

[yeezus]

I hope the Phillies have more money to spend, because Amaro is a horrible GM and will do something stupid with it.
Maybe he will take on Vernon Wells?

[Hawk]

Nate McLouth goes to the Nationals, 2 years $10.75 million (Heyman).

Hah. Hah.

[Heyward]

Lol at those "experts" criticizing Jay-Z. Cano will be good, but the Mariners will regret it after a couple years.

Nah.

Cano is one of the most durable players in baseball, elite hitter, great fielder.

The last 2-3 years may be bad, but if you get 7 good years out of it, it's well worth it.

They are in on Napoli/Choo/Cruz/Price, if they can get one of those hitters and Price, they'll be in business, but im not sure i'd give up Walker+++ for Price.

Cano has shown no signs of declining either, he'll be a great hitter for awhile provided health. He's durable as it gets.

10 years is alot but Cano is one of the best in the business.

[nsacpi]

Philadelphia surely doesn't seem to be hurting much financially. They just gave $42MM to Carlos Ruiz and Marlon Byrd, and are about $30MM under the LTT ... reportedly gearing up to go after more starting pitching. If they move Papelbon it seems more to do with this free-for-all frenzy that is the open market than in-house fiscal maneuvering. I could definitely see a team like Texas, St. Louis, Baltimore, or NYY forking over some prospects AND taking his entire contract (which isn't so unreasonable, seeing as Brian Wilson just got $10MM to set up Kenley Jansen.)

Maybe Baltimore will give them Jemile Weeks.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 2m
Napoli two years, $32 million with #RedSox.

[NinersSBChamps]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 2m
Napoli two years, $32 million with #RedSox.

Napoli originally got a 3/39 deal from Boston last odd season. He made 13 MM this past season. 3/45 is what it looks like now.

[Perfect Cell]

beltran to the yanks

[CrimsonCowboy]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m
Source: Beltran going to #Yankees. Three-year deal, per @FeinsandNYDN.

[thethe]

Its got to be fun to root for a team that can make multiple moves.

[Gary82]

Its got to be fun to root for a team that can make multiple moves.

At least we didn't lose Cano. That sucks.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 6m
Beltran $45 million for three years with #Yankees, per @TBrownYahoo.

Hmmm. I think that is another overpay.

[Gary82]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 6m
Beltran $45 million for three years with #Yankees, per @TBrownYahoo.

Hmmm. I think that is another overpay.

Beltran HOF?

[Heyward]

Must be nice to have money.

[Heyward]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 6m
Beltran $45 million for three years with #Yankees, per @TBrownYahoo.

Hmmm. I think that is another overpay.

Nah, Beltran can still rake, great hitter.

Postseason numbers are historic.

[jsebe10]

Fckn Yankees are buying everybody up!!! Jesus

[CrimsonCowboy]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m
Ellsbury, McCann, Beltran, Kuroda to #Yankees, all for combined $299M.

And yet, they still have a ton of questions about their team

[Heyward]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m
Ellsbury, McCann, Beltran, Kuroda to #Yankees, all for combined $299M.

And yet, they still have a ton of questions about their team

Sadly they arent done either

:facepalm:

[CrimsonCowboy]

I think Choo is the next one to sign and I think it's to the Rangers

[Perfect Cell]

the Yankees OF bench is ridiculous

Ichiro Wells and Soriano? 5 -10 ish years ago this was an all star level OF lol

[Heyward]

the Yankees OF bench is ridiculous

Ichiro Wells and Soriano? 5 -10 ish years ago this was an all star level OF lol

Soriano will probably DH most of the time, i would think.

And they will DFA/trade one of Wells/Ichiro.

[Hawk]

It's hard to believe that Vernon Wells is only 34.

[Bdawg2309]

Soriano will probably DH most of the time, i would think.

And they will DFA/trade one of Wells/Ichiro.

or gardner

[Heyward]

or gardner

Gardner for Murphy or Brandon Phillips makes sense.

[bravesnumberone]

Anyone can go down at anytime. If the Mariners can add more, then sure it will be worth it for a few years. But they've got work to do still.

[Heyward]

Anyone can go down at anytime. If the Mariners can add more, then sure it will be worth it for a few years. But they've got work to do still.

Are you saying the team or Cano wont work out.

Cano has been pretty damn durable, maybe he gets more hurt as he gets older, but hes one of the more durable players in baseball.

[bravesnumberone]

He's still not worth that much money, sorry.

[cajunrevenge]

I dont think the Cano deal is bad if they actually make a legitimate effort to win now. And by win now I dont mean trading Walker for Price. I dont think they are good enough in any area to be a playoff team. King Felix and Iwakuma are a great top 2 but then its prospects. Walker should be decent right away but theres a lot of risk at the back end of their rotation. The pen has a few good relievers but is more a weakness than strength. The offense is bad and Cano just takes them from horrific to bad. Mariners still need another good starter and hitter to be a playoff team. Right now they look like a team that tries to sneak in with the second wild card and hope to ride their ace to a series win or two.

[goldfly]

Apparently Jay Z should stick to using old rock tracks for rap albums.


10 years, 240 million for Cano to Seattle.

Looks like you underestimated Hova ... again.

http://thejosevilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/jayzcigar.jpg

[The Chosen One]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10093370/carlos-beltran-new-york-yankees-reach-three-year-45-million-deal

Beltran 3 year deal to NYY.

[thethe]

At least we didn't lose Cano. That sucks.

We will have to deal with losing either Freeman or Heyward in two years.

[Tapate50]

http://thejosevilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/jayzcigar.jpg

Pissing off your highest bidder is not a good idea. I guess we need to applaud Jay Z for getting his client 60 million less than he asked for?

Who is hova?

[thewupk]

Nah.

Cano is one of the most durable players in baseball, elite hitter, great fielder.

The last 2-3 years may be bad, but if you get 7 good years out of it, it's well worth it.

They are in on Napoli/Choo/Cruz/Price, if they can get one of those hitters and Price, they'll be in business, but im not sure i'd give up Walker+++ for Price.

Cano has shown no signs of declining either, he'll be a great hitter for awhile provided health. He's durable as it gets.

10 years is alot but Cano is one of the best in the business.


Cano will be 31 to start this contract. How long he will remain durable and a great hitter is up for debate because players can drop off at any time after they are 30. Especially for players that play almost every game. Chipper was 32 when he went from durable (averaged 157 games the past 7 years) to injury prone. Arod was also 32 when he started missing game after averaging 157 for the previous 7 years too. And at 33 he started declining with the bat too while he was one of the best in the business. Cano is a great player right now. But signing someone to a 10 year deal after they are 30 is generally a horrible idea. The last half of the contract is going to be brutal.

[clvclv]

Hate to be the one to point it out, but Cashman's doing one *ell of a job of putting the Yankees back together as a favorite this winter.

CF- Ellsbury
SS- Jeter
RF- Beltran
1B- Teixeira
DH- Soriano
C- McCann
2B-
3B- KJ
LF- Gardner

Re-signing Kuroda was major...even if they miss out on Tanaka, they can go get Garza or Colon to go with Sabathia, Kuroda, Nova, and Phelps and they'd have a solid enough rotation to be a threat to anyone.

Trade Gardner for Dat Dude, plug Ichiro in in LF, and get lucky and somehow get a healthy Michael Pineda in that rotation and they're as good as anyone all of a sudden.

[NYCBrave]

Hate to be the one to point it out, but Cashman's doing one *ell of a job of putting the Yankees back together as a favorite this winter.

CF- Ellsbury
SS- Jeter
RF- Beltran
1B- Teixeira
DH- Soriano
C- McCann
2B-
3B- KJ
LF- Gardner

Re-signing Kuroda was major...even if they miss out on Tanaka, they can go get Garza or Colon to go with Sabathia, Kuroda, Nova, and Phelps and they'd have a solid enough rotation to be a threat to anyone.

Trade Gardner for Dat Dude, plug Ichiro in in LF, and get lucky and somehow get a healthy Michael Pineda in that rotation and they're as good as anyone all of a sudden.

The only thing I'm seeing when looking at this team on paper is "wow this team is old". The chance for injuries is pretty high on this team. Don't forget Sabathia was pretty poor last year, and isn't getting any younger either. Kuroda, who knows how long he can keep this up. Plus, no more Mariano. Their bullpen was a HUGE mess last year.

[BRule]

Hate to be the one to point it out, but Cashman's doing one *ell of a job of putting the Yankees back together as a favorite this winter.
.

If this was 2008, yes....not in 2014 though.

[ChapelHillMatt]

That's a lot of turnover from one year to the next, looks like something you'd try on MLB the Show, lol

[ChapelHillMatt]

Boston is still the class of the division and I don't think it's all that close.

[Heyward]

Cano will be 31 to start this contract. How long he will remain durable and a great hitter is up for debate because players can drop off at any time after they are 30. Especially for players that play almost every game. Chipper was 32 when he went from durable (averaged 157 games the past 7 years) to injury prone. Arod was also 32 when he started missing game after averaging 157 for the previous 7 years too. And at 33 he started declining with the bat too while he was one of the best in the business. Cano is a great player right now. But signing someone to a 10 year deal after they are 30 is generally a horrible idea. The last half of the contract is going to be brutal.

7 good years, 3 bad, not great.

Well worth it.

[Heyward]

Boston is still the class of the division and I don't think it's all that close.

Boston over achieved last year, they wont even make the playoffs.

[Heyward]

Hate to be the one to point it out, but Cashman's doing one *ell of a job of putting the Yankees back together as a favorite this winter.

CF- Ellsbury
SS- Jeter
RF- Beltran
1B- Teixeira
DH- Soriano
C- McCann
2B-
3B- KJ
LF- Gardner

Re-signing Kuroda was major...even if they miss out on Tanaka, they can go get Garza or Colon to go with Sabathia, Kuroda, Nova, and Phelps and they'd have a solid enough rotation to be a threat to anyone.

Trade Gardner for Dat Dude, plug Ichiro in in LF, and get lucky and somehow get a healthy Michael Pineda in that rotation and they're as good as anyone all of a sudden.

Its not bad but as others have said, the risk for injury is pretty high.

Beltran/Ellsbury, even Mac have had some injury problems in the past.

They do need a closer or a high leverage arm like a Benoit/Balfour.

Do have some younger bullpen arms though, but a bullpen is easy to put together.

Rotation is a bigger concern though especially if CC is in decline mode.

Kuroda is a stud though, about as consistent as there is in the game.

[BRule]

Boston over achieved last year, they wont even make the playoffs.

Bostons pitching is going to keep them in the race, it's worlds better than anything the Yankees have.

[Heyward]

Bostons pitching is going to keep them in the race, it's worlds better than anything the Yankees have.

I dont really disagree it is but not by much.

Depending what other SP the Yankees get (Tanaka) being the one up in the air with his bidding thing all messed up right now.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Boston has better starting pitching and a much better bullpen. They resigned Napoli and added Pyrzenski. They also might end up trading for Kemp.

There is something to be said for chemistry and they have it. Games aren't won on paper, they are won on the field.

[goldfly]

Who is hova?

:facepalm:

[Perfect Cell]

Boston has better starting pitching and a much better bullpen. They resigned Napoli and added Pyrzenski. They also might end up trading for Kemp.

There is something to be said for chemistry and they have it. Games aren't won on paper, they are won on the field.



they don't have Ellsbury though so right now they are worse than last year while the yanks are better.

[thewupk]

7 good years, 3 bad, not great.

Well worth it.

Assuming 7 good years going forward for someone who is about to turn 31 is not likely.

[thewupk]

Boston has better starting pitching and a much better bullpen. They resigned Napoli and added Pyrzenski. They also might end up trading for Kemp.

There is something to be said for chemistry and they have it. Games aren't won on paper, they are won on the field.



Talent wins on the field, not chemistry. If chemistry won anything then the Braves would of done something the last few years. Their clubhouses have been great.