GDT 4/7/24: Braves vs D-Backs - Feeling Sweepy

Enscheff said:
Yes, I have spiraled into blaming Snit for injuries that haven't happened due to moves he hasn't made in games that haven't been played yet. It's supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek though.

Modern load management studies have already shown the benefits of resting guys. It's why boomers complain about the current NBA rest patterns.
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Boomers like league executives, TV networks, and fans.

The NBA itself acknowledges that load management is a huge issue for the sport. I would hate if MLB became as extreme as the NBA.

I understand the performance benefits. But fans (i.e. not just boomers) would rather watch Ronald Acuna (Joel Embiid) instead of Forest Wall (Paul Reed),
 
chop2chip said:
Boomers like league executives, TV networks, and fans.

The NBA itself acknowledges that load management is a huge issue for the sport. I would hate if MLB became as extreme as the NBA.

I understand the performance benefits. But fans (i.e. not just boomers) would rather watch Ronald Acuna (Joel Embiid) instead of Forest Wall (Paul Reed),
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It's a little illogical to make statements like, "Championships and winning is all that matters", and then be against things proven to make a team more likely to win.

But I suppose it's silly to ask fans to be logical about anything, ever.
 
Enscheff said:
It's a little illogical to make statements like, "Championships and winning is all that matters", and then be against things proven to make a team more likely to win.

But I suppose it's silly to ask fans to be logical about anything, ever.
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I don’t agree that championships are all that matters. (IIRC you disagree with the mantra of “flags fly forever”)

Fans says they only care about winning, and obviously it’s important since attendance and ratings go up when the team is good, and down when the team is bad. But when you are asking a family of 4 to shell out $500 to go to a game, you have some accountability to entertain them (and that includes playing your best players IMO). Within reason of course, I don’t think Ronald Acuna should play 162 games. Where you draw the line in the sand is very nuanced.
 
chop2chip said:
I don’t agree that championships are all that matters. (IIRC you disagree with the mantra of “flags fly forever”)

Fans says they only care about winning, and obviously it’s important since attendance and ratings go up when the team is good, and down when the team is bad. But when you are asking a family of 4 to shell out $500 to go to a game, you have some accountability to entertain them (and that includes playing your best players IMO). Within reason of course, I don’t think Ronald Acuna should play 162 games. Where you draw the line in the sand is very nuanced.
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Yep.
 
chop2chip said:
I don’t agree that championships are all that matters. (IIRC you disagree with the mantra of “flags fly forever”)

Fans says they only care about winning, and obviously it’s important since attendance and ratings go up when the team is good, and down when the team is bad. But when you are asking a family of 4 to shell out $500 to go to a game, you have some accountability to entertain them (and that includes playing your best players IMO). Within reason of course, I don’t think Ronald Acuna should play 162 games. Where you draw the line in the sand is very nuanced.
Click to expand...

I disagree with "flags fly forever" when it's applied to the argument of which team would you rather cheer for: the team that wins a title and is then terrible, or the team that is consistently good and always in the playoffs. I think it's a no brainer to prefer the team that is always exciting to watch vs the team that was exciting for one year in the last decade. Then, of course, there's everything in between, and I would prefer the team I follow to lean towards the sustainable model...which the Braves do almost as well as anyone.

Winning championships is the ultimate goal, and I would much rather watch every Braves player 155 times a year if it ended up with a title than watching them all play 162 games and fail to win a title. I want the team I follow to do everything in their power to increase their chances of winning, and I want them to do it without fail. I want my favorite team to always use the correct lineup, even if it only leads to 1 extra run a year. I want them to always make the correct pitching changes, even if it only leads to preventing 1 extra run per year. I want to get bench players some PAs so they can contribute in emergencies, and I want players rested so they play at 90% for 155 games rather than 80% for 162 games. I want every single optimal move to be made because when 10 optimal moves are always made the team wins an extra 1-2 games. The Rays have shown this as the model optimal franchise in sports.
 
chop2chip said:
I don’t agree that championships are all that matters. (IIRC you disagree with the mantra of “flags fly forever”)

Fans says they only care about winning, and obviously it’s important since attendance and ratings go up when the team is good, and down when the team is bad. But when you are asking a family of 4 to shell out $500 to go to a game, you have some accountability to entertain them (and that includes playing your best players IMO). Within reason of course, I don’t think Ronald Acuna should play 162 games. Where you draw the line in the sand is very nuanced.
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I don't go to games to see one particular player.. especially on a team of 26 men and 9 playing at one time.. I have gone to several games and I don't care who is pitching or playing. Sure I want to see the best of the best play, but I also want to see good baseball and a W. Giving a guy off 10-15 games is not going to piss any fans off nor will it really diminish any chances the Braves making the playoffs.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I don't go to games to see one particular player.. especially on a team of 26 men and 9 playing at one time.. I have gone to several games and I don't care who is pitching or playing. Sure I want to see the best of the best play, but I also want to see good baseball and a W. Giving a guy off 10-15 games is not going to piss any fans off nor will it really diminish any chances the Braves making the playoffs.
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Do you think kids feel the same the way you do?

Keep in mind every person who posts on a message board is in the 1% of fans. We obsess over minor league transactions so it’s easier to understand how load management fits into the bigger picture.

If my family took me to a Braves game in 1999, 10 year old me who have been crushed if Chipper Jones didn’t play because of load management.

I think it’s the right strategy to rest players to maximize wins (which is why teams do it). If the only responsibility a team has is to maximize wins, then load management is great.

Now, where Snitker and AA have no excuse is the low hanging fruit like having Acuna occasionally DH, or pulling guys in the late innings when the game’s outcome is decided. These are basics that everyone seems to do besides the Braves and there’s no benefit to it.
 
Enscheff said:
I disagree with "flags fly forever" when it's applied to the argument of which team would you rather cheer for: the team that wins a title and is then terrible, or the team that is consistently good and always in the playoffs. I think it's a no brainer to prefer the team that is always exciting to watch vs the team that was exciting for one year in the last decade. Then, of course, there's everything in between, and I would prefer the team I follow to lean towards the sustainable model...which the Braves do almost as well as anyone.

Winning championships is the ultimate goal, and I would much rather watch every Braves player 155 times a year if it ended up with a title than watching them all play 162 games and fail to win a title. I want the team I follow to do everything in their power to increase their chances of winning, and I want them to do it without fail. I want my favorite team to always use the correct lineup, even if it only leads to 1 extra run a year. I want them to always make the correct pitching changes, even if it only leads to preventing 1 extra run per year. I want to get bench players some PAs so they can contribute in emergencies, and I want players rested so they play at 90% for 155 games rather than 80% for 162 games. I want every single optimal move to be made because when 10 optimal moves are always made the team wins an extra 1-2 games. The Rays have shown this as the model optimal franchise in sports.
Click to expand...

This is obviously still subjective, but I agree that 155 games is very reasonable (assuming full health).
 
chop2chip said:
Do you think kids feel the same the way you do?

Keep in mind every person who posts on a message board is in the 1% of fans. We obsess over minor league transactions so it’s easier to understand how load management fits into the bigger picture.

If my family took me to a Braves game in 1999, 10 year old me who have been crushed if Chipper Jones didn’t play because of load management.

I think it’s the right strategy to rest players to maximize wins (which is why teams do it). If the only responsibility a team has is to maximize wins, then load management is great.

Now, where Snitker and AA have no excuse is the low hanging fruit like having Acuna occasionally DH, or pulling guys in the late innings when the game’s outcome is decided. These are basics that everyone seems to do besides the Braves and there’s no benefit to it.
Click to expand...


I get it, I really do.. but I think I have always been a fan of the team and not the player.. even as a kid. Back when I was young I loved Horner/Murphy/Benedict and even Butler when he sucked...There wasn't much to route for, but I loved going to the stadium.. I loved the atmosphere, the sounds, smells, everything about the experience.. I think that shaped my famdom as it is now. I go to the game not to really watch.. just feel the energy and experience. I am weird like that... I watch games on tv.. I experience them in person, but don't really watch..

I did wish I could have gone to a Maddux game, but I was never upset when instead I got JJ pitching. (I know I could have planned it better, but usually I got tickets pretty far in advance)
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I get it, I really do.. but I think I have always been a fan of the team and not the player.. even as a kid. Back when I was young I loved Horner/Murphy/Benedict and even Butler when he sucked...There wasn't much to route for, but I loved going to the stadium.. I loved the atmosphere, the sounds, smells, everything about the experience.. I think that shaped my famdom as it is now. I go to the game not to really watch.. just feel the energy and experience. I am weird like that... I watch games on tv.. I experience them in person, but don't really watch..

I did wish I could have gone to a Maddux game, but I was never upset when instead I got JJ pitching. (I know I could have planned it better, but usually I got tickets pretty far in advance)
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You say you love the smells, so I'm wondering, have you ever smelled any farts at a baseball game?
 
Reminds me……

What’s the difference between a chickpea and a garbanzo bean?


Enscheff has never paid to have a garbanzo bean on his face.
 
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