GDT #19 4/21/14: Marlins (Koehler) @ Braves (Teheran), 7:10

thewupk said:
First of all you should look at the leagues entire OPS by that position and not just who qualified.

2010 NL RF: 778 OPS vs 849 for Heyward
2011 NL RF: 794 OPS vs 708 for Heyward
2012 NL RF: 769 OPS vs 814 for Heyward
2013 NL RF: 777 OPS vs 776 for Heyward
2014: who cares because the season is 3 weeks old

So I would categorize that as two above average years, 1 below average, and 1 average year. And that's just when comparing him to people who play right and using OPS which is a flawed offensive statistic. WOBA and it's derivative WRC+ are much much better. And also I think the original comment is that Heyward is a well below average hitter. That is false even when comparing him to other RFs (and Heyward is arguably the best base runner and defender of all RFs btw) and even more so when comparing him to the league as a whole.
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Why should I use the stats of scrubs that filled in here and there to give someone a day off? and all stats count even if we are just 3 weeks into the season.

And maybe I should have chosen by words a lil more carefully. Based on his stats to this point, he is an below average hitter.
 
Modok said:
Why should I use the stats of scrubs that filled in here and there to give someone a day off? and all stats count even if we are just 3 weeks into the season.

And maybe I should have chosen by words a lil more carefully. Based on his stats to this point, he is an below average hitter.
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LOL whatever man. That's your opinion. His freak injuries should not be held against him. When he's been healthy he has been above average. That's not debatable. So I'll leave it at that.
 
Modok, I am probably one of the most negative Jason Heyward people here. I wouldn't even call him a below average hitter. I may have called him things like that in the past, but at the end of the day I believe he is an average to above average hitter. His expectations coming up were through the roof. Fair or not he was expected to become a superstar. I myself don't see that happening. I stifle my expectations of him more on the solid to good player. He could all of a sudden figure it out and start raking and I hope he does. Some people will label him a bust if he never lives up to lofty expectations. I would be satisfied with a 270/370/475 slash line while playing great defense and being our best base runner.
 
Back on topic, Gattis looks like he may be a pretty good player. He's been good since he's been here, so until it totally stops we have to believe in him.
 
Also as far as Heyward bunting goes. The idea is of course to have a man on 3rd with 1 out. If it works then it's a small increase in that a run will score. From 1993-2010 with a man on 2nd and 0 outs a run was scored 63.7% of the time. With a man on 3rd and 1 out it goes up to 67.4% chance. So yeah it does slightly increases your chances of scoring. However with successful a bunt happening roughly 75% of the time one has to wonder if it's truly the right move. If it works it helps a little but if it fails then it hurts, a lot as a man on 2nd with 1 drops the chances down to 41.8%. The risk/reward just isn't good enough especially with a hitter like Heyward up there. Now if you have a Rafael Belliard at the plate then that changes things as well.
 
thewupk said:
Also as far as Heyward bunting goes. The idea is of course to have a man on 3rd with 1 out. If it works then it's a small increase in that a run will score. From 1993-2010 with a man on 2nd and 0 outs a run was scored 63.7% of the time. With a man on 3rd and 1 out it goes up to 67.4% chance. So yeah it does slightly increases your chances of scoring. However with successful a bunt happening roughly 75% of the time one has to wonder if it's truly the right move. If it works it helps a little but if it fails then it hurts, a lot as a man on 2nd with 1 drops the chances down to 41.8%. The risk/reward just isn't good enough especially with a hitter like Heyward up there. Now if you have a Rafael Belliard at the plate then that changes things as well.
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I also think just the fact that a fly ball to LF or a grounder to 2nd likely move Schafer anyway. I'm surprised he chose to bunt.
 
Modok said:
Why should I use the stats of scrubs that filled in here and there to give someone a day off? and all stats count even if we are just 3 weeks into the season.

And maybe I should have chosen by words a lil more carefully. Based on his stats to this point, he is an below average hitter.
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All stats do count and that's why you plug in everyone who plays the position. Also note that OPS is flawed but I guess you looked over that part. Heyward has had a 120 or higher WRC+ in 3 of his 4 seasons. That in no way equals a below average hitter.
 
yeezus said:
I also think just the fact that a fly ball to LF or a grounder to 2nd likely move Schafer anyway. I'm surprised he chose to bunt.
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There is that too. With him being a lefty and having pull tendencies there is a strong chance he gets to 3rd anyway while trying to get a hit. I think bunting in that situation should only be reserved by weaker hitters but then again at that point in the game they should really be pinch hit for.
 
Since I'm feeling frisky

2010 MLB RF WRC+ 108 vs 134 for Heyward
2011 MLB RF WRC+ 109 vs 96 for Heyward
2012 MLB RF WRC+ 104 vs 121 for Heyward
2013 MLB RF WRC+ 105 vs 120 for Hewyward

Look at that. When using proper offensive stats Heyward is well above average in 3 of his 4 years. Who knew.
 
yeezus said:
Well, I hope you know my disagreement with you in this thread was intended as respectful, just a difference of opinion. Any fan forum will have ones that don't like the manager or complain or this or that. Some of it's annoying at times but it's part of it, for me.
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Krovahn has been far and away the most offended person by the poor language and insensitive comments some of the jerks feel necessary to post on a nightly bases. I decided to simply leave on a daily basis and, yes, occasionally report a poster. Sorry to see him go, but if he takes offense so easily, it's for the best.
 
Only 16,000 at game tonight. That's a disgrace, Marlins or not, school night or not. Maybe being in the 'burbs will end this kind of turnout.
 
rico43 said:
Krovahn has been far and away the most offended person by the poor language and insensitive comments some of the jerks feel necessary to post on a nightly bases. I decided to simply leave on a daily basis and, yes, occasionally report a poster. Sorry to see him go, but if he takes offense so easily, it's for the best.
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I think some should just not bother with game threads. I used to have my fun in these a few years back but it's pretty pointless now. Mostly just bickering and name calling, etc. I'll watch the game when I can and take part in discussion that's worth my time.
 
thewupk said:
I think some should just not bother with game threads. I used to have my fun in these a few years back but it's pretty pointless now. Mostly just bickering and name calling, etc. I'll watch the game when I can and take part in discussion that's worth my time.
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In retrospect, the game threads years ago were dominated by older (age wise) veterans whom no longer really post anymore. MikeAdams, TexasLeaguer, rniki (she lurks now), gr8, and others.

We have a younger crowd here, there's positives and negatives. I think in a few years a lot of the younger guys in their 20's here will mellow up and it won't be so chaotic. I don't think niners can be this negative forever.

Its also ironic looking back at the days when AA and goldfly were considered the negative headaches on the board. Now I consider both of them seasoned vets, and wouldn't ask them to change much. Although goldfly probably has a worse temper than AA, but AA has a shorter fuse at times.
 
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