Minor League Thread Part Deux

CyYoung31 said:
And yet, there are plenty of examples of current pitchers being successful despite a lack of velocity (Suarez, Lugo, Littel). Movement and command is king.
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Tunneling is something that's hard to measure but as important than anything us for those that 'know how to pitch'.

It's a combination of it all and someone like Maddux was a master of all aspects of it which shows how far that can get you. Odds are that Owen doesn't amount to much because most pitchers don't. But if he has command, movement and can tunnel his pitches then he can get big league hitteres out with poor velocity.
 
Folks, Jose Quintana has a sub 4.00 ERA over the last 4 seasons with one of the worst fastballs in the game. Don't tell me you can't have success with an average or below average repertoire. If you can sequence and tunnel your pitches and make them all look the same, you can still have success.

Sure, the path to success is far easier for someone like Skuball with elite velocity than it is someone like Seth Lugo with mediocre velocity. But there is a path nonetheless.
 
I think it's possible that a guy that doesn't throw hard could be effective, but it's far from likely.

And bringing up unicorns to make this argument is never really all that effective. Particularly unicorns from 30 years ago.
 
Southcack77 said:
I think it's possible that a guy that doesn't throw hard could be effective, but it's far from likely.

And bringing up unicorns to make this argument is never really all that effective. Particularly unicorns from 30 years ago.
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I wouldn't call most of these guys unicorns.

Maddux for sure was a unicorn. Seth Lugo or Zack Littell? Not so much.
 
Carp said:
I wouldn't call most of these guys unicorns.

Maddux for sure was a unicorn. Seth Lugo or Zack Littell? Not so much.
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Lugo and Littell both sit 2+ mph above where Murphy is currently sitting; Lugo throws like 8 pitches, Littell didn't "figure it out" until his age 28 season and isn't actually very good. Quintana is also throwing harder than Murphy, and he hasn't been a particularly good pitcher in years. All of the guys (including Maddux) that have been referenced in this thread came up throwing significantly harder at the beginning of their careers. I can think of one guy in the past 20 years who came up throwing <90 and managed to make a successful career - Kyle Kendricks.

Like yeah, it's not impossible, but stop acting like people who are skeptical are crazy.
 
rawwr said:
Lugo and Littell both sit 2+ mph above where Murphy is currently sitting; Lugo throws like 8 pitches, Littell didn't "figure it out" until his age 28 season and isn't actually very good. Quintana is also throwing harder than Murphy, and he hasn't been a particularly good pitcher in years. All of the guys (including Maddux) that have been referenced in this thread came up throwing significantly harder at the beginning of their careers. I can think of one guy in the past 20 years who came up throwing <90 and managed to make a successful career - Kyle Kendricks.

Like yeah, it's not impossible, but stop acting like people who are skeptical are crazy.
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Murphy is still working his way back. But reports are his fastball is back roughly back to the 91-94 MPH range it was at pre-injury and sitting around 92. I suppose you are referencing the tweet posted earlier where he was more in the 89-92 range. Of course that's only 1 start though. He was hitting 93 a few times in the August 2nd start. And in his lone rehab start he reportedly hit 94 a time or 2.

The 2 guys I listed were selected because they are notorious for succeeding with a fastball that is below average. But there are several others if you would like to choose from them. Sonny Gray, Merrill Kelly, Chris Bassitt, Shane Bieber, and Justin Steele are all guys that have had a lot of success with a fastball that sits around 92 mph or lower in recent years. Kershaw has been sitting below 91 MPH for the last 7 years and he's been mostly fantastic when he's healthy (certainly more of the unicorn variety though).

Lastly, Quintana averages just over 90 mph on his fastball these days. So no, he is in fact not throwing harder than Murphy right now. And you're also missing the entire point about why I even mentioned Quintana. It isn't that Quintana has been an amazing pitcher lately. The entire point is that he is proof you can absolutely have success with well below average stuff and velocity if you know how to pitch (i.e. sequencing, tunnelling, etc). and have great command over your pitches. Also, saying he "hasn't been particularly good" is just flat out a false statement. It is is true that his expected stats are not very good in recent years, but results are results. And over the last 3.5 years he is 28th in the majors in ERA (better than Gallen, Strider, Pablo Lopez, and Cease over the same span). To say he hasn't been good over this span is just not accurate. You could say that it's all smoke and mirrors, but again, results are results.
 
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Eric Hartman continues to rake. People really need to take notice here. He's certainly seems better than the 25th best prospect or whatever BS that one site was spitting out. .390 wOBA since coming off the IL on July 2nd. And he turned 19 only 2 months ago.

John Gil staying hot too.
 
Carp said:
Eric Hartman continues to rake. People really need to take notice here. He's certainly seems better than the 25th best prospect or whatever BS that one site was spitting out. .390 wOBA since coming off the IL on July 2nd. And he turned 19 only 2 months ago.

John Gil staying hot too.
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I’m really taking his ascension to heart, man.
 
Carp said:
Eric Hartman continues to rake. People really need to take notice here. He's certainly seems better than the 25th best prospect or whatever BS that one site was spitting out. .390 wOBA since coming off the IL on July 2nd. And he turned 19 only 2 months ago.

John Gil staying hot too.
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based on recent images, he might need to shed a few pounds though..

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