Cycle of Dependency
- Thread starter sturg33
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Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
acesfull86
Well-known member
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
Statistic Verification
Source: US Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Department of Commerce, CATO Institute
Research Date: 1.1.2014
Less than 7 months 19%
7 to 12 months 15.2%
1 to 2 years 19.3%
2 to 5 years 26.9%
Over 5 years 19.6%
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
Percent of the US population on welfare 4.1 %
so, 19.6% of 4.1% is how many people staying on welfare for more than 5 years
please, tell me how this is a HUGE problem
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
so numbers from the "US Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Department of Commerce, CATO Institute" are not legitimate in your opinion
got ya
No, they aren't, haha.
But that's not the point.
The 'welfare' study you are referring to excludes unemployment benefits and food stamps. It also excludes illegals.
That skews the numbers a bit, don't you think?
I'd like to see a complete statistical break down of people taking money from the government (or rather, redistributed taxpayer funds).
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Let me try. By your definition, it's 100%. We all consume government services.
Yes.
But I'd like to see it broken down -- not at all for reasons within the scope of welfare debate.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
no i don't think it does since what we are talking about is welfare
and thus, those are the numbers for welfare
Uh, SNAP and unemployment insurance are welfare initiatives.
The problem is, we have another entitlement program that we specifically call welfare.
We're talking about the cycle of dependency here. All of the above have fueled its explosion and expansion.
And over roughly 70% of immigrants are on welfare (specifically [a demographic excluded from your 'legitimate' source]).
njc108
Arizona Fall Leaguer
The cycle of dependency can be broken through education and job creation. Yes there are people who take from government programs and don't want to get off of them. However I think those people are just fearful of doing better in life. More importantly they DO NOT know how to improve their lot in life. It boils down to what a person sees around them. If you see other people scamming the system and getting away with it then you do the same. KeithLockhart is right forget about that woman and think about the kids. We need to REACH these kids by funding more after school programs (sports, scouts, clubs such as chess etc) to keep kids and teens busy (not home sexing/producing babies or selling/using drugs). Helping teens to find part-time stress free jobs. Making all higher education free to anyone who wants it. Have a program that helps all high school and college grads find employment right before they graduate. Teach life skills to these teens and 20 something's in regards to finances (bank accounts, savings, investing), buying vs renting, cars etc. if we do these things I think a lot of children of dependent adults will grow up to break the cycle.
For the adults who are repeating the cycle the problem is they do not know any better. Some of these people are uneducated, have never left their environment or think they CANNOT do better in life because of their background. For women we do not provide free childcare. We shame women into thinking abortion is wrong so they keep the child. But raising a child is very expensive. Leaving welfare for a low paying job is not going to help a single mother. When people work 3 jobs and miss out on raising their kids only for a mere couple of dollars a week no wonder some don't want to leave welfare because the other alternative will drive you insane. That young woman should not be punished for getting pregnant at an early age. We (society/gov) should have made it easy for her to attend college. Pregnancy shouldn't be an education/future killer.
My story: While we are not nor ever been apart of the cycle .....My mother could have been. My parents divorced when I was a year old. My mom tried to get child support during the late 80's but gave up because of how long it takes the court system to do anything (this is why I believe docking a mans pay should be instant if he is the father). My mom worked 3 jobs only to make $25,000. Half of her salary went to my private school because the public school system in the city where we lived sucked. 3 jobs ....fellas in this thread ......3 JOBS and my mom was a college grad. I did not see my mom most of my child hood due to work. After awhile my mom lost her main job and was scared to death about supporting us. She could have given up on life and cheated the system. After all she worked very hard only to get nothing out of life. My mom then became a police officer to better our lives. She again missed most of my childhood, teen years, birthdays etc because if work. Even with a PO job childcare was expensive especially when we moved out of the city to the burbs. I as a young woman with out any parents around could have easily gotten pregnant at an early age and given up on college etc.
Guys all I'm saying is that it's easy to fall into the dependency cycle but if we don't have job programs and affordable around the clock childcare it's so very hard to break the cycle.
For the adults who are repeating the cycle the problem is they do not know any better. Some of these people are uneducated, have never left their environment or think they CANNOT do better in life because of their background. For women we do not provide free childcare. We shame women into thinking abortion is wrong so they keep the child. But raising a child is very expensive. Leaving welfare for a low paying job is not going to help a single mother. When people work 3 jobs and miss out on raising their kids only for a mere couple of dollars a week no wonder some don't want to leave welfare because the other alternative will drive you insane. That young woman should not be punished for getting pregnant at an early age. We (society/gov) should have made it easy for her to attend college. Pregnancy shouldn't be an education/future killer.
My story: While we are not nor ever been apart of the cycle .....My mother could have been. My parents divorced when I was a year old. My mom tried to get child support during the late 80's but gave up because of how long it takes the court system to do anything (this is why I believe docking a mans pay should be instant if he is the father). My mom worked 3 jobs only to make $25,000. Half of her salary went to my private school because the public school system in the city where we lived sucked. 3 jobs ....fellas in this thread ......3 JOBS and my mom was a college grad. I did not see my mom most of my child hood due to work. After awhile my mom lost her main job and was scared to death about supporting us. She could have given up on life and cheated the system. After all she worked very hard only to get nothing out of life. My mom then became a police officer to better our lives. She again missed most of my childhood, teen years, birthdays etc because if work. Even with a PO job childcare was expensive especially when we moved out of the city to the burbs. I as a young woman with out any parents around could have easily gotten pregnant at an early age and given up on college etc.
Guys all I'm saying is that it's easy to fall into the dependency cycle but if we don't have job programs and affordable around the clock childcare it's so very hard to break the cycle.
acesfull86
Well-known member
57 thanked something that came from the CATO Institute? I'm forwarding this straight to the Koch bros....
Tapate50
Well-known member
I got to the capitalized REACH, and had to post this. I'll digest the rest in a moment.
57Brave
Well-known member
Actually, the thank you was for gold - providing data to prove (argue) his point.
Secondly, I get ripped on a daily basis for being partisan ------ tough crowd !
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Awesome post. You nailed quite a few points. Might argue with one or two for clarification, but solid.
I see this in parts of my family. Some members of the family help like my mom. We do not give any money to help out, but we provide food, pay the bills, because like my mother, I do not lend out money because I do not know if you do the right thing. She took in various cousins of mine under our roof because her family did not bring them up right or couldn't control them. They give her even today a mothers day card because what she instill in them (everyone here knew my mother was a teacher, but not the kind that taught a subject, she taught hard knocks. She got the bad kids the schools did not want to deal with and she tutored them like a drill seargent) She knew how to do it because she had nephews and nieces at home including my three brothers and sisters. We grew as a family. We played together, invited the neighborhood over for parties of kickball, baseball, football, you named it we did it. The environment is important as you alluded to and some of those kids were from broken homes, single parent homes, but we welcomed them and tried to give them a better grasp on life.
I miss those days. Now when I go home, it is empty, no kids, pets, nothing. Just a bunch of elderly people reminiscing about the good ol's days that are gone.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
As someone with no kids I dont have a lot of symapthy for someone with 3 kids. Sure its not the kids fault but you have to draw tye line somewhere. I can understand one kid, people make mistakes when they are young. If you are too stupid to learn from that mistake then I shouldnt help subsidize your stupidity. I have managed fast food restaurants and managed HUD houses, I have seen the culture of dependance first hand.
The changes I would make if I could
1- I would set benefits to a time period with little or no restrictions on income from working. So when someone applies for welfare they get a set time of 6 months or a year. I really hate the incentive to not work. I woukd rather pay someone welfare who works 40+ hours a week thaj someone who works 10-15.
2- I would tie benefits to their kids grades and attendance. If their kids make straight A's and perfect attendance I have no problem giving them more money.
3- if you are going to take government handouts then I think you should give up some personal rights. If you can't afford to feed your kids then you can't afford beer and tobacco. Also would support a random drug test every once in a while.
4- benefits should be reduced for every child after the first. Also no benefits for additional kids produced while currently on benefits. The only way around that would be if they agreed to get their tubes tied or vascectomy. That's the price you pay for living off other people.
5- I would fund 100% free healthcare for all kids till they are 18, possibly extended thru college if they are low income. Beyond that point your i n your own unless you have prepreexistinting conditions.
6- I would also raise how much seniors could make without losing benefits.
The changes I would make if I could
1- I would set benefits to a time period with little or no restrictions on income from working. So when someone applies for welfare they get a set time of 6 months or a year. I really hate the incentive to not work. I woukd rather pay someone welfare who works 40+ hours a week thaj someone who works 10-15.
2- I would tie benefits to their kids grades and attendance. If their kids make straight A's and perfect attendance I have no problem giving them more money.
3- if you are going to take government handouts then I think you should give up some personal rights. If you can't afford to feed your kids then you can't afford beer and tobacco. Also would support a random drug test every once in a while.
4- benefits should be reduced for every child after the first. Also no benefits for additional kids produced while currently on benefits. The only way around that would be if they agreed to get their tubes tied or vascectomy. That's the price you pay for living off other people.
5- I would fund 100% free healthcare for all kids till they are 18, possibly extended thru college if they are low income. Beyond that point your i n your own unless you have prepreexistinting conditions.
6- I would also raise how much seniors could make without losing benefits.
njc108
Arizona Fall Leaguer
You are obviously coming at this from a privilege perspective. You have witness dependency but have you been apart of it or have family members/friends who are apart of it? Have you done anything yourself to stop or prevent dependency? I've seen it first hand as an officers daughter. My mother worked and volunteered her time in the projects giving clothes, toys, and supplies to some of the needy families. She has even received a punch in her face for her efforts. My grandfather performed Christian missionary work in the projects working with little kids. Thus as a kid I was dragged along instead of rollerblading in the burbs with my friends I was playing with low income kids whose family couldn't afford rollerblades, sega, or bikes etc. Things I use to take for granted.
I have no kids myself but it's not up to me to judge or to call people stupid or think kids are mistakes. Those same "stupid" women can be abused emotionally/physically or suffer from low self esteem. These are real issues that need to be dealt with that can help prevent future struggles. But maybe if abortion and birth control was free and easy to obtain and women weren't picked on for choosing those options then some public assistance programs wouldn't be so needed.
The changes I would make if I could
Now you want a single mom to work 40 hours a week. These women probably aren't receiving child support and if they are it's very little money. Factor in daily living expenses (Pampers are VERY expensive and the government does not provide money for this item)plus a car note or auto upkeep bills (cause a car is vital to life and very expensive). Mom is not getting home until late and then she has to cook and clean. Then help a child with schooling. Do you understand how important a child's first few years of life is in terms of education. If a mom is working all the time making minimum wage....too physically/emotionally tired to help their child(ren) with school work a child can be so far behind other children their age by the time they start kindergarten. If a mom works too much to spend time with their kid she is evil. If she doesn't work enough she is evil. It's a no win situation.
Have you even factored into it if a child has a learning disability? A parent who can barely read and write assisting a learning disable child is disastrous! But you want their benefits to be tied into their child's grades? As a librarian, former teacher, and a learning disabled person I'm pulling out my hair over this....OMG!!! God help us all.
But what happens if I take a female friend out for a birthday drink whose family is on food stamps? She is not paying for the drinks. Can't she have a day of fun just 1 day? I only agree with this if they are known alcoholics or drug users. Other than that I don't have a problem with a person working minimum wage getting food stamps and using their own money for a drink of beer on a sat or fri. night once and awhile. It's not like they are using their money to take vacations to Europe etc. Let them have 1 little vice to relax.
I say let's just cut off the private parts of all men who aren't paying child support or greatly behind in paying. I can go for women having their tubes tied as long as the men are forced to do the same or they face life in prison.
No one is talking about JOBS! Maybe just maybe if the government provided free job training, childcare, and transportation these people will not need welfare. Cutting benefits won't do anything but have some or most of these people commit crimes. If you want them robbing you and your family then have at it.
I should feel the way some of you feel on this very subject but I simply can't because of my life experiences...
Currently my family has fostered then adopted 2 little biracial girls. Their mother who is white dropped out of school in 6th grade (Where was child protective services at this point?). She has had abortions, two older (fully white) kids already taken from her. She was not on welfare when she was drunk/drugged up and rolled over on my little sister causing her to suffocate almost to death. At 6 months old my sister was pronounced brain dead and drs. thought she wouldn't live. My sister is now 3 years old, walking but will more than likely never talk, spoon feed herself, use a potty etc. I have now given up my life, my relationships, my money, and time to help be a sister/mother to these girls (who were complete strangers). That's how I have helped to break the cycle!
Now this lady, my siblings bio mom has served her time and trying to get on her feet. She attends college, but with no income she uses her loan money and prostitutes her body for $ to get to class & live. She worked hard in jail to get her GED but because of her background she can't get a job. What should she do just kill herself? No one wants to give her an opportunity to work. It's not easy for someone who has made bad choices in life to pull themselves up because we condemn them for their poor choices in life and won't give them a chance.
All I'm saying is that it's not race, class etc. what affects one person really does affect all of us as a society. Taking welfare programs away is not going to help anyone. It's just going to create starvation of children, homelessness, crimes, and death.
Free birth control, abortions, education, childcare, job placement/training, and transportation is the way to go! I don't mind using my tax money and paying even more taxes for these things if it will help people.