Second ('Third') Trump Presidency Thread

sturg33 said:
Again, if true... what are we even arguing over

https://twitter.com/x/status/2051574339951296618
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We’re arguing over whether to judge people as individuals or as a members of a group (sometimes a crude, arbitrarily defined group).

If we have an immigration system where we can’t (or won’t) vet basic facts on individuals, then the door should be shut to everyone until that problem is solved. The discussion should revolve around how to arrive at a solution to that particular problem. Further discussion on country of origin differences would just be a red herring.
 
acesfull86 said:
We’re arguing over whether to judge people as individuals or as a members of a group (sometimes a crude, arbitrarily defined group).

If we have an immigration system where we can’t (or won’t) vet basic facts on individuals, then the door should be shut to everyone until that problem is solved. The discussion should revolve around how to arrive at a solution to that particular problem. Further discussion on country of origin differences would just be a red herring.
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Sounds good. You agree then the door needs to be shut right now, yes?
 
acesfull86 said:
If we have an immigration system where we can’t (or won’t) vet basic facts on individuals, then the door should be shut to everyone until that problem is solved.
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that's the idea...to demand data of a particular specificity and granularity that as a practical matter is not possible

but data from another country is perfectly good for quoting even though the American experience with immigrants is usually different from that and other countries
 
sturg33 said:
Veteran disability also appears to be riddled with fraud

I have a close friend who served in the army and went to fight. He shared he gets about $8k a month for disability.

I never reallt questioned it but ive spent a significant amount of time with the guy and wouldnt be able to tell you what his disability is

https://twitter.com/x/status/2050940148758860032
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I think this is a pretty dangerous path. Vets already receive pretty poor health care as it is. Denying them disability is pretty shitty.

I think the vast amount of vets (probably 80% or more) likely would qualify for some level of disability based off their everyday routine alone. And PTSD is very real for Vets. Especially for any that were stationed in combat areas. Many don't want to claim PTSD, due to the stigma, though it is becoming more common.

If you met several of my friends, you likely wouldn't know they had any sort of disability from the military. 1 was shot in the belly and out the back and was less than 15 minutes from dying when he got back to base. Unless he pulled up his shirt, you would never know he got injured. Another took grenade shrapnel to the shoulder, then put a comrade on his good shoulder while dragging another to safety while taking enemy gunfire. Other friends got hurt doing routine training exercises. My best friend shattered his ankle running PT and he still has issues with it, despite being out of the army for nearly 10 years.

Like most welfare programs, the amount of those abusing the system is generally low. And changing the system to eliminate the small percentage of fraud will end up taking money and benefits from those that really need it.
 
Carp said:
Like most welfare programs, the amount of those abusing the system is generally low. And changing the system to eliminate the small percentage of fraud will end up taking money and benefits from those that really need it.
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Perfection will never be attained. But we should always be looking for ways to improve. Applies to government programs and pretty much everything else in life.
 
sturg33 said:
Sounds good. You agree then the door needs to be shut right now, yes?
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Yeah, if you can’t properly vet a person coming into your country, the door needs to be shut. What comes next? I see Trump is posting charts (from other countries), but I don’t see much effort in actual immigration reform, despite control of the executive, the senate, and house.
 
acesfull86 said:
Yeah, if you can’t properly vet a person coming into your country, the door needs to be shut. What comes next? I see Trump is posting charts (from other countries), but I don’t see much effort in actual immigration reform, despite control of the executive, the senate, and house.
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Im not suggesting trump is doing anything about it. But i believe the numbers do show a sharp reduction in immigration in his term, no?

And you keep saying "if we cant" whereas i am saying "clearly, we cant"
 
sturg33 said:
Im not suggesting trump is doing anything about it. But i believe the numbers do show a sharp reduction in immigration in his term, no?

And you keep saying "if we cant" whereas i am saying "clearly, we cant"
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I think we can, if not perfectly. It’s possible the answer is more “clearly, we won’t”

It’d be nice to hear an answer from someone in either party how we get better at this. If we can land people on the moon, this should be a solvable problem.
 
Carp said:
I think this is a pretty dangerous path. Vets already receive pretty poor health care as it is. Denying them disability is pretty shitty.


Like most welfare programs, the amount of those abusing the system is generally low. And changing the system to eliminate the small percentage of fraud will end up taking money and benefits from those that really need it.
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Credit where it’s due to both you and Sturg on this for consistency, though. There will be a large percentage of people who will look at this and hand-wave away any potential fraud that were also *very* concerned about any and all Somali Daycare or Autism program fraud. And if I were a betting man, I’d say those on the other side of the political aisle will have a lot more to say about sensational claims about the VA than they did for Minnesota.

But none of this is as straight forward as people are making it out to be, and I sincerely hope that we can find our way to an approach of investigating actual fraud and developing better systems and processes to quickly identify fraud rather than simply react to a sensational number without an ounce of curiosity. I reject the notion that it’s beyond our grasp to both provide public services for those who need it and improve the efficiency of those programs by reducing fraud and waste. Unfortunately it seems that we have increasingly moved toward an all or nothing approach to a serious problem.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/2052236933607157959

Not really that far off from what I’d be comfortable with landing at on the issue. If you came here as a child or have been here positively contributing to society, there’s no reason for the government to treat you the same as they would a violent criminal. I think the left would be a in a good spot electorally if they latched on to this, added other types of labor and agreed we need to act on criminals and those who came here illegally and aren’t working.
 
As of April 2026, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ), in collaboration with federal task forces, has cracked down on a massive hospice fraud scheme in Southern California, resulting in the suspension of roughly 447 to 450 hospice providers. [1, 2, 3]
These actions are part of a broader crackdown on healthcare fraud involving Medi-Cal (California Medicaid) and Medicare, with estimated fraudulent claims in the LA area alone exceeding $600 million
 
mqt said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2052236933607157959

Not really that far off from what I’d be comfortable with landing at on the issue. If you came here as a child or have been here positively contributing to society, there’s no reason for the government to treat you the same as they would a violent criminal. I think the left would be a in a good spot electorally if they latched on to this, added other types of labor and agreed we need to act on criminals and those who came here illegally and aren’t working.
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My buddy made a good suggestion. Offer illegals without felonies the ability to become naturalized citizens if they serve a term of military of service (say 5 years, maybe less). I think you would see a HUGE boon in enlistments and it gives the added bonus of teaching them some basic skills to use after their service is complete.

We already offer a similar program. Just expand it to all illegals without felonies.
 
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Carp said:
My buddy made a good suggestion. Offer illegals without felonies the ability to become naturalized citizens if they serve a term of military of service (say 5 years, maybe less). I think you would see a HUGE boon in enlistments and it gives the added bonus of teaching them some basic skills to use after their service is complete.

We already offer a similar program. Just expand it to all illegals without felonies.
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I dig it, although I think we’d be better served if that military service was something more like the Coast Guard or National Guard and we deployed them domestically to help with disasters or utilize them for important public service projects, and if we took minors who accompanied others and either greatly reduced the term or exempt them from service entirely. I don’t think we should make an 18-year-old potentially die for us to live in the only country they’ve ever known. But I think that would be a great start.
 
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