Fredi Gonzalez Rant Thread.

[The Tariff King]

Hudson mentioned how refreshing it is to come to the ballpark and know your manager has full confidence in you and isn't going to get tight if things start going bad. Interesting.

I know it's a month later, but it's kind of funny Hudson said this considering Bobby used to give him the quick hook many times as well and I never heard him complain a peep about it.

If anything Fredi pulling Huddy out early when it got tight was good because 1) Huddy was on the wrong side of 35, and 2) Huddy ain't what he used to be when we first got him or even when he was in Oakland.

Also, up until this season, we've consistently had one of the best bullpens in the majors year in and year out since 2010. So I actually applaud Fredi for going to the bullpen more often than not because it's always been an extremely reliable option (up until recently) than banking on a late 30's starter getting out of a jam. What I'm saying of course is not relative to whether or not Fredi has overused the bullpen. All I'm saying is when it comes to decision making on a game to game basis, it seems Fredi chooses the higher percentage option.

Wouldn't most of you find that to be the logical choice? Option A) Let your bullpen, that's been successful 9 times out of 10, get the team out of the jam and live to fight another inning or B) See if Starting Pitcher who's already near 100 pitches try and get out of it?

At what point does Huddy's own ego become bigger than the team itself, which is Fredi's job first and foremost to manage the team. I've always admired Hudson's bulldog competitive mentality, but I think it's kind of bush league to say such passive aggressive elementary gossip. And it's no surprise the guys who are siding with Huddy on this on here are known Fredi complainers.

 

[The Tariff King]

We were down 5-0 and it was Fredi's fault that our offense was absolutely miserable for 8 innings. BJ hits a triple to make it 5-4 *crickets*. We tie the game *crickets*. Kimbrel blows the tie *crickets*. We tie the game *crickets*. Hale implodes DAMNIT FREDI. Shae comes in as a last resort to get the inning done. DAMNIT FREDI.

Actually, Freddie Freeman has been so awful up until that ground rule double, that I advocate Fredi is an idiot for not moving him down in the order and putting TLS & SIMMONS ahead of him!

Freeman and Justin terrible = DAMNIT FREDI.

 

[jason27nc]

That is just hilarious because the main gripe from posters during GTs is that Fredi is too slow to make moves, or doesn't "panic" fast enough. The posters who regularly berate Fredi on here seem to have no idea how managing decisions are made.

Here's a hint: he's not trying to WIN every game like it's the 7th game of the WS. He's more concerned with keeping players mentally and physically healthy for the WHOLE season (the bullpen notwithstanding because they're expendable and their magic doesn't last that long anyway). He's just trying to find a way to get the team just playing up to their potential. That's why he keeps batting BJ 2nd and why he isn't going to drop FF from the 3 hole anytime soon, unless there's something really wrong with Freddie, which could be the case.

Some were complaining about Simmons coming in last night. Wasn't it obvious? Fredi tried his best to not use him but Hale, who went almost 3 innings after pitching the night before was burnt, soggy toast. He had no choice but to bring Simmons in for 2 outs.

In game decisions aren't anywhere near as important as you guys make them out to be. The players win or lose the game, 99.99% of the time. The FO cares more about the mood in the clubhouse than they do about bullpen or pinch run decisions.

Btw, how in the hell are we still tied for 1st as bad as we are playing???

1. First of all Fredi don't even manage to win when we are in the playoffs. I have never seen a manger act like it is April or May in the playoffs. Fredi did just that last year against the Dodgers. You try to win every game. I don't care if you do or not but you play to win the game.

2. In game decisions dictate the outcome more often than not. It is Fredi's job to figure out what each of his players are capable of and use them accordingly. Yes the players have to execute after being put in these spots but Fredi is historically bad at this.

3. We are tied for first because our division sucks really really bad. We have the worst division baseball by far. If Fredi managed this team to win we would be up at least 5 games right now if not more.

 

[jason27nc]

We were down 5-0 and it was Fredi's fault that our offense was absolutely miserable for 8 innings. BJ hits a triple to make it 5-4 *crickets*. We tie the game *crickets*. Kimbrel blows the tie *crickets*. We tie the game *crickets*. Hale implodes DAMNIT FREDI. Shae comes in as a last resort to get the inning done. DAMNIT FREDI.

Actually, Freddie Freeman has been so awful up until that ground rule double, that I advocate Fredi is an idiot for not moving him down in the order and putting TLS & SIMMONS ahead of him!

Freeman and Justin terrible = DAMNIT FREDI.

Again the players put us in position to win the game and Fredi blew it when we were there. Not once but several times in that game. Not bunting the runner over in the 9th is just stupid. The game should never have gotten to the 10th. The players do deserve some of the blame but they also have a manager that has to pull the right triggers.

 

[The Tariff King]

Again the players put us in position to win the game and Fredi blew it when we were there. Not once but several times in that game. Not bunting the runner over in the 9th is just stupid. The game should never have gotten to the 10th. The players do deserve some of the blame but they also have a manager that has to pull the right triggers.

If I recall, it was 1st and 2nd with 1 out and CJ up.

CJ probably sucks at bunting, and would've K'd attempting to bunt. It's already 50/50 he's going to K when he's just trying to put the ball in play.

It's unfortunate CJ GIDP like he's been doing plenty of this year.

If there is a gripe, it's TLS should've been in that situation, but many of you would've wanted him to bunt anyways. Or if he did let him swing and TLS unfortunately hits into a DP, you'd be calling for Fredi's head on why didn't he bunt anyways.

I don't like the bunt with 1st and 2nd and 1 out. A single is just as likely to get in the run at 2nd with 1 out as it is with 2 outs, only difference is with 2 outs the runner is running on contact.

It's one of those situations CJ would've been better of K'ing instead of grounding into a DP.

Let's not forget just how terrible our entire team has been at bunting this year.

 

[AerchAngel]

If I recall, it was 1st and 2nd with 1 out and CJ up.

CJ probably sucks at bunting, and would've K'd attempting to bunt. It's already 50/50 he's going to K when he's just trying to put the ball in play.

It's unfortunate CJ GIDP like he's been doing plenty of this year.

If there is a gripe, it's TLS should've been in that situation, but many of you would've wanted him to bunt anyways. Or if he did let him swing and TLS unfortunately hits into a DP, you'd be calling for Fredi's head on why didn't he bunt anyways.

I don't like the bunt with 1st and 2nd and 1 out. A single is just as likely to get in the run at 2nd with 1 out as it is with 2 outs, only difference is with 2 outs the runner is running on contact.

It's one of those situations CJ would've been better of K'ing instead of grounding into a DP.

Let's not forget just how terrible our entire team has been at bunting this year.

Quit defending our manager, he is horrible. He makes the lineup cards, he does the pinch hitting an relieving. Poor decisions through and through.

Bottom line SAV and I swear on a stack of bibles, you would be a better manager even though you are 25 years old.

 

[jason27nc]

If I recall, it was 1st and 2nd with 1 out and CJ up.

CJ probably sucks at bunting, and would've K'd attempting to bunt. It's already 50/50 he's going to K when he's just trying to put the ball in play.

It's unfortunate CJ GIDP like he's been doing plenty of this year.

If there is a gripe, it's TLS should've been in that situation, but many of you would've wanted him to bunt anyways. Or if he did let him swing and TLS unfortunately hits into a DP, you'd be calling for Fredi's head on why didn't he bunt anyways.

I don't like the bunt with 1st and 2nd and 1 out. A single is just as likely to get in the run at 2nd with 1 out as it is with 2 outs, only difference is with 2 outs the runner is running on contact.

It's one of those situations CJ would've been better of K'ing instead of grounding into a DP.

Let's not forget just how terrible our entire team has been at bunting this year.

And who's fault is that?

 

[jason27nc]

Quit defending our manager, he is horrible. He makes the lineup cards, he does the pinch hitting an relieving. Poor decisions through and through.

Bottom line SAV and I swear on a stack of bibles, you would be a better manager even though you are 25 years old.

Exactly.

 

[DirkPiggler]

The move that baffled me was pinch running for Gattis with Uggla. Fredi took out our hottest hitter for a marginal at best gain in speed on the bases. Making this move at that time also meant we couldn't pinch hit for Hale. It might not have mattered anyway, but those moves made absolutely no sense to me.

 

[jason27nc]

Wow, I played in as many MLB games as Fredi did.

"Gonzalez was born in Holguín, Cuba to Fredi and Caridad González.[1] He grew up in Miami, Florida, where he attended Southridge High School.[2] He was signed by the New York Yankees after being their 16th selection in the 1982 amateur draft. He spent six years as a catcher in the Yankees farm system, though never advancing above the AA level. After two years as a graduate assistant coach for the University of Tennessee Volunteers he began his managerial career in 1990, taking over the Miami Miracle of the Florida State League." Wiki

Bobby Cox did play in the MLB for the Yankees. This may explain why Fredi does not have clue about situational baseball. A reach I know but it could be the reason.

As a player, Cox originally signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers, but was never able to make the Dodgers' major league team. Eventually he was acquired by the Braves, but never appeared in an MLB game for them either. Instead, he was traded to the New York Yankees on December 7, 1967. Cox played two seasons, mostly at third base, for the Yankees. Because of bad knees, Cox became the second in a string of four stopgap players between Clete Boyer and Graig Nettles.

 

[Runnin]

1. First of all Fredi don't even manage to win when we are in the playoffs. I have never seen a manger act like it is April or May in the playoffs. Fredi did just that last year against the Dodgers. You try to win every game. I don't care if you do or not but you play to win the game.

2. In game decisions dictate the outcome more often than not. It is Fredi's job to figure out what each of his players are capable of and use them accordingly. Yes the players have to execute after being put in these spots but Fredi is historically bad at this.

3. We are tied for first because our division sucks really really bad. We have the worst division baseball by far. If Fredi managed this team to win we would be up at least 5 games right now if not more.

That's all you've got, vague generalizations and poor English?

I don't know about the Huddy quote and don't put any stock in it. It's the height of bad form to criticize a former manager over something as trivial and debatable as that, but Huddy's known for stepping in it. Remember when he blamed DOB for Furcal staying with the Dodgers?

 

[57Brave]

The move that baffled me was pinch running for Gattis with Uggla. Fredi took out our hottest hitter for a marginal at best gain in speed on the bases. Making this move at that time also meant we couldn't pinch hit for Hale. It might not have mattered anyway, but those moves made absolutely no sense to me.

After 10 innings catching what was the status of Gattis' knee / legs?
go ahead run --right?
Laird was in on deck circle to PH for Hale.

Never sacrifice bunt with one out and 2 on. It is in the book. You gain no advantage -- unless of course one can rely on a balk or a passed ball. Baseball 101

I am amazed at the lack of basic tactical baseball intelligence on this board

 

[AerchAngel]

I am amazed at the lack of basic tactical baseball intelligence on this board

I am amazed at the lack of any intelligence coming from you old man.

 

[tomahawkchop10]

If I recall, it was 1st and 2nd with 1 out and CJ up.

CJ probably sucks at bunting, and would've K'd attempting to bunt. It's already 50/50 he's going to K when he's just trying to put the ball in play.

It's unfortunate CJ GIDP like he's been doing plenty of this year.

If there is a gripe, it's TLS should've been in that situation, but many of you would've wanted him to bunt anyways. Or if he did let him swing and TLS unfortunately hits into a DP, you'd be calling for Fredi's head on why didn't he bunt anyways.

I don't like the bunt with 1st and 2nd and 1 out. A single is just as likely to get in the run at 2nd with 1 out as it is with 2 outs, only difference is with 2 outs the runner is running on contact.

It's one of those situations CJ would've been better of K'ing instead of grounding into a DP.

Let's not forget just how terrible our entire team has been at bunting this year.

No, freddie was on 2nd with no outs. JUp would have been the one bunting, and it would have been gattis up with a runner on 3rd 1 out. It's tough to tell your cleanup hitter to bunt though. Not sure what the right decision was, I was fine with letting upton swing.

I don't think you can put last night on freddi at all. I do think he is a bad manager however. He manages scared. Just like he's scared to bench/move bj down cause last time bj voiced his displeasure when moved off the 2 spot. Freddi needs to grow a pair and start making some tough decisions.

 

[tomahawkchop10]

After 10 innings catching what was the status of Gattis' knee / legs?
go ahead run --right?
Laird was in on deck circle to PH for Hale.

Never sacrifice bunt with one out and 2 on. It is in the book. You gain no advantage -- unless of course one can rely on a balk or a passed ball. Baseball 101

I am amazed at the lack of basic tactical baseball intelligence on this board

There was a runner on 2nd no outs before 1st and 2nd 1 out. Jup K'd then gattis was walked. Not hating on the decision, just giving the details.

 

[Bravesfan205]

The importance of the manager position is extremely overrated. How many wins does the best manager in baseball add to his team? and how many games does the worst manager cost his team? at the end of the day the players are responsible for how the team performs. If CJ drives in the game winning run last night instead of hitting into a double play no one would complain that he wasn't bunting in that situation. And if CJ had bunted and by some stroke of luck actually laid down a good bunt people would complain that he was bunting in that situation. And although I do agree that BJ should not be in the two hole it doesn't make that big a difference who's hitting second with Freddie and Justin being so bad lately. Gonzalez can't help that our best hitters are in slumps right now and he can't help that everyone in the pen outside of Kimbrel and Simmons are not getting the job done this year.

 

[DirkPiggler]

After 10 innings catching what was the status of Gattis' knee / legs?
go ahead run --right?
Laird was in on deck circle to PH for Hale.

Never sacrifice bunt with one out and 2 on. It is in the book. You gain no advantage -- unless of course one can rely on a balk or a passed ball. Baseball 101

I am amazed at the lack of basic tactical baseball intelligence on this board

I don't know why you quoted my post regarding bunting. I'm against it pretty much all the time, with the exception of when the pitcher is batting. If you have a man on 2nd with no outs and a weak hitter up, in a situation where you need exactly one run...maybe.

There was no reason to pull Gattis for Uggla. Like I said above, if it were replacing him with someone significantly faster, even one of the starting pitchers like Santana, then maybe. Uggla isn't much if any faster than Gattis, 10 innings worth of catching notwithstanding. It was a dumb move, and burned our last two position players in the process. It didn't cost us the game, but it was still a dumb decision.

 

[Braves1976]

The importance of the manager position is extremely overrated. How many wins does the best manager in baseball add to his team? and how many games does the worst manager cost his team? at the end of the day the players are responsible for how the team performs. If CJ drives in the game winning run last night instead of hitting into a double play no one would complain that he wasn't bunting in that situation. And if CJ had bunted and by some stroke of luck actually laid down a good bunt people would complain that he was bunting in that situation. And although I do agree that BJ should not be in the two hole it doesn't make that big a difference who's hitting second with Freddie and Justin being so bad lately. Gonzalez can't help that our best hitters are in slumps right now and he can't help that everyone in the pen outside of Kimbrel and Simmons are not getting the job done this year.

OK I see the main points (so called) a lot from hardcore Fredi defenders: Managers don't effect the game or don't really matter and who bats where in the line-up doesn't matter much if at all. Which if true sure goes against why we made Heyward our leadoff man and how not just Fredi but pretty much all of the rest of us reacted to how we took off with him batting leadoff last year. Who's to say we couldn't do the same with similar line-up tweaks like moving La Stella to second and BJ down, etc? It sure wouldn't hurt to try it. But either way I disagree that it doesn't matter much who your manager is or what he does.

Further, I find it funny some of the nonsense posted attacking Huddy and totally misrepresenting him (not directed at the poster quoted btw). All Huddy did was be honest about how great it is to have a manager like Bochy who doesn't panic when things get tough. Yes he implied that Fredi does the opposite too but he didn't directly say so. It also had nothing to do with ego or how quick a hook Fredi had with him. Besides, Fredi really never had a quick hook with Huddy so there's nothing there anyway. So I have no idea why that spin got started as it makes no sense. I guess some of y'all would rather spin or attack Huddy with nonsense because you like Fredi so much.

 

[Bravesfan205]

OK I see the main points (so called) a lot from hardcore Fredi defenders: Managers don't effect the game or don't really matter and who bats where in the line-up doesn't matter much if at all. Which if true sure goes against why we made Heyward our leadoff man and how not just Fredi but pretty much all of the rest of us reacted to how we took off with him batting leadoff last year. Who's to say we couldn't do the same with similar line-up tweaks like moving La Stella to second and BJ down, etc? It sure wouldn't hurt to try it. But either way I disagree that it doesn't matter much who your manager is or what he does.

The team did do much better with Heyward leading off last year but Heyward also hit much better in the lead off position than he did anywhere else in the line up last year. You could attribute the teams performance more to Heywards resurgence than his position in the line up. I agree that moving the line up could change things and that La Stella should be in the two hole but Fredi believes that you can't bat lefties back to back so it hasn't happened yet. I'm not a fan of Fredi either I'm just saying that he takes a lot of flak for stuff that's out of his control like the performance of the players. Some of the criticism he receives for his decisions is just ridiculous. I agree his line ups could be better and so could his bullpen management but other than that he has little impact on the games

 

[57Brave]

The post I quoted was speaking of the substitution. Uggla was the last bench player outside of Laird. Say what you will about Uggla but I am sure 99% of MLB baseball people would rather have Uggla represent the go ahead run on 2nd in the 11th (?) over Gattis.
Still, did Fredi get a post game question on the move ? I usually follow his post game comments - this might have passed me. Because, I didn't think the move all that controversial and pretty much by the book.
If he was asked, what did he say? If he wasn't professional bseball critics saw what I saw. a pretty un impeachable PR decision

Certain here that Gattis' leg health had something to do with the decision. That is one more reason why it is not at all controversial to run for a catcher.
Uggla is a good base runner. Not fast --- good