FIFA World Cup 2014

NinersSBChamps said:
They need a tie. Germany is good with a tie as well. Neither team will try much unless Germany takes a lead and the U.S. plays with urgency.
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Doesn't work like that.

Whoever wins the group doesn't have to face Belgium, and would face a weaker opponent in South Korea, Russia, or Algeria.

Both teams could advance on a draw yes, but both teams aren't going to park the bus. USA playing either one of those 3 not named Belgium, would be a theoretical win and move on to the quarters.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Doesn't work like that.

Whoever wins the group doesn't have to face Belgium, and would face a weaker opponent in South Korea, Russia, or Algeria.

Both teams could advance on a draw yes, but both teams aren't going to park the bus. USA playing either one of those 3 not named Belgium, would be a theoretical win and move on to the quarters.
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Thanks for giving me a real answer. I know zero about soccer. I don't really care for it, but I am trying to give it a chance.

So they reseed teams based on how they did in group stage? Or something along those lines.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Thanks for giving me a real answer. I know zero about soccer. I don't really care for it, but I am trying to give it a chance.

So they reseed teams based on how they did in group stage? Or something along those lines.
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Technically not really reseed, the group winners and runner ups by default are matched up.

Group G Winner vs. Group H Runner Up
Group H Winner vs. Group G Runner Up

If we win Group G, we definitely won't play Belgium who's a lock to clinch Group H. We'd play Algeria, Russia, or SK.

Germany is more likely to win our group, if we draw they will win the group regardless since they're already ahead of us on goal differential. Only way they don't win the group is if we beat them on Thursday. If we won yesterday, we could clinch the group just on a draw with Germany. They would have had to beat us to get the group win.
 
Croatia just couldn't put it together. Mexico and Brazil are battling to win the group. Mexico scored and then a minute later Brazil added another one. Brazil looks to have the goal difference to win the tie breaker. Pretty crazy though.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Yes he is. Statistically and talent wise in his prime he's better.

Nationally, league wise he's dominated everywhere. He was as great of a passer as any of them, just as fast, and scored at will. Way more accomplished resume.
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Sorry you're wrong.

Top 10 goals in a calendar year for club and country

1. Messi - 90
2. Gerd Muller - 85
3. Chitalu - 81
4. Pele - 75
5. Ferenc Deak - 66
6. Romario - 65
7. Hank Groot - 64
8. Dixie Dean 63
9. Christiano Ronaldo - 61
10. Josef Bican - 57.

Some of those players are really old or played against pathetic opponents, but that's not the case with Messi and Ronaldo.

And as far as age goes, he went to MLS at 32-33, which isn't that old.

As far as the accomplished Resume. This is what Henry has

Monaco - League Champs 96-97 Trophees Des Champions 97
Arsenal - Premier League 01-02 and 03-04 FA Cup 02, 03, 05
Barca - La Liga 08-09 09-10, Copa Del Ray, 08-09, UCL 08-09
France - WOrld Cup 98 Euro 2000

COmpare to Messi

Barca - La Liga 04-05, 05-06, 08-09, 09-10, 10-11, 12-13 Copa Del Ray 08-09 11-12 UCL 05-06 08-09 10-11
Argentina - Olympic GOld 2008, Fifa U-20 World cup 05
Individual - Ballon d'Or 09, 10, 11, 12 Fifa world player of the year 09, WOrld Soccer player of the year 09, 11, 12, World Soccer Greatest Xi of all time

They both have wins in golden boots and what not.

Henry was a great player, but he was hardly transcendent. We're blessed right now to have 2 of the All-Time greatest talents to grace the game in Messi and Ronaldo. THey do it differently. Ronaldo is a physical freak who has the skill to boot. He's basically the LeBron James of soccer. Lio is undersized but has a magnet attached to his boot that seemingly keeps the ball at his feet and despite his small choppy style of running, he still outruns nearly everyone on the pitch. Leo has the ability to always find the back of the net. I would compare Henry to Ibra or RvP. Great goal scorer and has other great abilities but not in that upper echelon of scorers.

BTW to drive my point home, Henry's most goals scored in a season is less than 46, because that's where the top 100 or so in Europe stops. Leo makes the list 4 times. Ronaldo 4 times, how is he statistically better than them?
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Oh okay so the goal is to avoid Belgium coming out of group G.
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That would be ideal. But they haven't been that convincing in group play. I think Group H could very well have no one advance to the quarters, not out of the question. Certainly like our odds better if Jozy is back. Otherwise Kompany will just abuse whoever our striker is. He massively outclasses Jozy but Jozy showing up and being a beast is the only shot we have of our strikers doing anything against Belgium.
 
Yawn. Look at the teams built around Messi and Ronaldo, and look at what Henry had at Arsenal. Not even close.

Also not listed in here is an undefeated season and a 49 game winning streak in which Henry was responsible for.

Would love to see if Messi could do the same thing in the EPL as he's done in Liga. Schedule is just much more brutal for EPL teams.
 
Henry also won a world cup in 1998 albeit he wasn't a starter yet.

You're the first person I've read that says Henry isn't in the upper echelon of scorers. The numbers aren't there but he's definitely one of the best finishers and scorers of all time. Man U fans know this. Liverpool fans know this. Totten**** fans know this especially.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Doesn't work like that.

Whoever wins the group doesn't have to face Belgium, and would face a weaker opponent in South Korea, Russia, or Algeria.

Both teams could advance on a draw yes, but both teams aren't going to park the bus. USA playing either one of those 3 not named Belgium, would be a theoretical win and move on to the quarters.
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Not to point out that there is history between Klinsmann and German players as well as his protege who's their current coach.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Yawn. Look at the teams built around Messi and Ronaldo, and look at what Henry had at Arsenal. Not even close.

Also not listed in here is an undefeated season and a 49 game winning streak in which Henry was responsible for.

Would love to see if Messi could do the same thing in the EPL as he's done in Liga. Schedule is just much more brutal for EPL teams.
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Doesn't explain the number of UCL titles Leo has, the World Player of the year awards, the Ballon d'Or, and many many more laudits Messi has. No one ever aside from you and maybe some other gunner twits would think Henry>Messi. You thinking that is bad. And it's not like the Arsenal teams he played on were slouches. Leo is on his way to being in the inner pantheon of soccer greats with the likes of Pele, Maradona, and Gerd Muller. Henry isn't there, he isnt' even close.

One more food for though item. Henry has scored for club and country 403 goals in 883 apps and for club has 193 assists in 760 games. Leo for club and country has scored 405 goals in 545 apps. I don't have career assist numbers for messi. But in his last 5 La Liga seasons he's had 67 assists in 154 games. Which if you compare assist/game puts him at an assist every .435 games while Henry on his career was at an assist every .254 games. Henry was a freak in 02-03. ANd carries most of that over to 03-04, but hardly was transendent. Which is better for club, 32 goals 24 assists, or 73 goals and at least 21 assists (Only counting assists in La Liga and UCL)

Seriously you debating this is sad.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Toughest September to May is EPL.

Not Liga, not Bundesliga, Not Serie A, not Ligue 1.
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OK. By that logic Henry would be the highest scorer in the premier league history in a season.

Nope, Andrew Cole, Alan Shearer (twice) Ronaldo, and Suarez bested him, he's tied in goals with Kevin Phillips and RvP but did it in less games. How about seasons he won the golden boot, but didn't have a ton of goals cause he missed time? Let's look at rates, Henry's best rate of scoring goals in the EPL was .84 per game, behind, Ronaldo, Suarez, Drogba, Shearer, and Cole.

So he's not had for how dominant he was, the best scoring season in rate or total goals in the EPL. Hmmmmmmm
 
I think Henry had a few 2nd's and 3rd's in the Ballon d'Or / FIFA player of the year. He's definitely one of the best players of his generation, but I don't know if I'd put him on the Messi/Ronaldo tier.

I'm probably not qualified to say, but I think Messi is in the best player of all time discussion...Henry is excellent, but on the periphery of the all time greats. I'd think he's behind Zidane and Platini as far as French players go?
 
acesfull86 said:
I think Henry had a few 2nd's and 3rd's in the Ballon d'Or / FIFA player of the year. He's definitely one of the best players of his generation, but I don't know if I'd put him on the Messi/Ronaldo tier.

I'm probably not qualified to say, but I think Messi is in the best player of all time discussion...Henry is excellent, but on the periphery of the all time greats. I'd think he's behind Zidane and Platini as far as French players go?
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And I'm fine with saying Henry is great. But Henry is not Woods or Jordan who're transcendent talents.

As you pointed out, most wouldn't even consider him France's greatest player.
 
My opinion on who's stock has risen in the World Cup so far and you may see a bigger clubs than where they are now swooping in.

First and foremost is Guillermo Ochoa, he's had a great world cup and will for sure get noticed by bigger clubs. If he was younger he would have clubs from all over the world including the real big boys knocking down his door.

James Rodriguez was a rising star before the WOrld CUp, after the showing he's put on so far he'll only rise further. People who follow soccer know of him (IIRC he lead Ligue 1 in assists last year) now everyone knows of him and he has some star power to go with his skills.

Last one for me for now is my homer picks. Matt Besler and Jermaine Jones. Both kind of in similar spots as Ochoa, Jones being more extreme. But Jones's performance may have earned him some looks from clubs who need a strong midfield presence for a year or 2. Was one of the better kept secrets of Schalke, now he's in Turkey, maybe he doesn't want to move, but if say Everton calls, does he say no? Besler has an obstacle, he plays for MLS which is notorious for blocking players moving out, that being said, his performance in the World Cup (and honestly his performances in the last year) shouldn't have gone unnoticed and teams have asked about him, now they'll possibly be pursuing him. Besler for me has had the biggest stock rise of anyone on the US squad. The question is will he want to play in Europe? And if he does will he be allowed to or will he have to ride his contract out? For sure he's gonna be on his way to being an exception player or whatever it's called in MLS if he stays.
 
James is interesting because he's already at Monaco doing well financially on a very good team with an easy path to the UCL. (Plus he gets to live in ******* Monaco) They paid 45 million euros to get him, and they're not a club starving for money.

I think it would take an insane offer from a top club to pry him away, and if he continues to be the star of this tourney, it will be interesting to see if an offer is made.
 
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