DOB has blown the whistle on the clubhouse; now what?

[rico43]

The tweet from Dave O'Brien was not terribly accusatory, but was as damming as a pointed finger at the Braves clubhouse:

Honestly, I don't see leadership in tough times

Fredi has called out his players in his own soft way:

"It’s a maturity thing. You’ve got to take the good with the bad. Everybody likes stuff to be written that’s good about them, but when you lose a tough game or someone needs to ask you a question about something, you need to be at your locker.”

"...when (a media relations official) tells me a couple of guys don’t want to talk (after a game), that’s not right. That’s something that we need to – that I need to —address. And I will.”

It's an absence of leadership, veteran or otherwise. Specifically, Simmons has been a bitch about talking some days, while Johnson and Laird have been singled out as go-to guys.

It might be experience, certainly, it might be the lack of character, or lack of heart, or lack of backbone. What I'm seeing after years of a Braves team that followed the example of Chipper, of Glavine, of Smoltz, of Pendleton, there's no one leading by example.

The cure might be a year of maturing, a year of letting it get away as is currently the case, but it might be a chemistry thing, where a change is gonna have to come. Maybe it's Peraza, maybe it's Bethancourt Hell, it might even be La Stella, but it's looking more and more like Freeman is reluctant to lead, Heyward seems to have the demeanor of a role player and the Uptons can't back up any talk with deeds.

Knowing Harang, Santana (who has been a role model for Teheran) and Laird will be among those gone after this year, it might be incumbent on the Braves finding an on-field leader, like they did when they brought Pendleton in.

In other words, as long as the core stays largely the same, the team demeanor will not change. It is not a winning attitude.

 

[skidlee]

Maybe some of the guys who.have been here a while should have becomes the leaders.

 

[The Tariff King]

Heyward NEEDS to be that guy.

He needs to be hitting 3rd, where he will live up to his potential. His rookie year, we all said he was going to be the guy to replace Chipper eventually as the 3rd hitter in the lineup. The problem is Freddie seems to have the third spot on lock.

Let's just go through the starting line up and try to find one:

BJ - LOL
La Stella - Could be in a few years, love his quiet go about your business professional demeanor kind of like how Glavine was.
Freddie - Still is too arrogant and immature to be the leader.
Justin - Too quiet. Sometimes he looks lost or overly frustrated.
CJ - Too much temper tantrum that can't be controlled to set a leadership example.
Simmons seems too much of an introvert to be a leadership guy right now. Still needs some growing. That could all change when he is like a 6-7 year veteran.
Gattis - No.

 

[zitothebrave]

TLS is a Jersey boy. He'll lead whether he should or he has to grease some palms.

 

[The Tariff King]

TLS is a Jersey boy. He'll lead whether he should or he has to grease some palms.

Is he going to be our Jeter?

 

[zitothebrave]

no cause he'll actually be a leader, not just bang bitches.

 

[BremanFan88]

Heyward seems to have the demeanor of a role player

That could not be further from the truth. He's the only young guy on this team that acts like a leader. Freddie is a clown, Kimbrel is pretty arrogant and Simmons seems to be a hot head at times. If anyone leads by example it's Jason freaking Heyward.

Maybe the real problem is that our manager is the guy that has the demeanor of a role player.

 

[The Tariff King]

That could not be further from the truth. He's the only young guy on this team that acts like a leader. Freddie is a clown, Kimbrel is pretty arrogant and Simmons seems to be a hot head at times. If anyone leads by example it's Jason freaking Heyward.

Maybe the real problem is that our manager is the guy that has the demeanor of a role player.

Exact thoughts on Heyward. His hustle, baseball IQ, never looks super frustrated like Freddie, and his fire you see glimpses of every now and then tell me he could and should be THAT guy.

As for Fredi, I think he's still getting a lot of unwarranted blame for this leadership stuff. We lost two of our longtime leaders in McCann and Hudson in one offseason. Hard to replace guys that have been on the team for 8 years that easily.

 

[zitothebrave]

The problem with leadership in the club is that Jason isn't getting paid, Freddie is. I'm not in a professional locker room. But I'd imagine the guys in the locker room would consider the dude who just took a big pay raise to be their leader. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Braves have an identity crisis and Fredi isn't the man for that job JMO. Maybe I'm wrong but we need more of a heavy hand to control the clubhouse to get things in order. Fredi seems to just be taking things in stride. You can let the clubhouse go as it is when you have leadership, But right now we just have leader****.

 

[The Tariff King]

So who would it be?

Maddon isn't known as a disciplinarian. Scioscia isn't. Certainly ain't gonna be Ned Yost, as he's probably worse than Fredi.

You bring a Larry Bowa loudmouth in here and it will destroy the clubhouse permanently for years until you rebuild the team.

Again, this isn't a Fredi problem, this is a generational thing plus a team full of young guys who think they've accomplished something. That's why you need to bring in somebody like when we brought in TP to show the young guys how to lead, or Heyward who already has all the tools to lead needs to step up. But you're absolutely right in that he's not the one getting paid, it's Freddie. What we're seeing right now is true growing pains for Fredi and for the core of this team. They think just because they made the playoffs two of the last 3 years that they've accomplished something. I don't think Fredi could do much behind the scenes, as it will probably build up tension and divide the clubhouse.

 

[skidlee]

Its Jason's fault he isnt gettng paid. ThE braves offered and he declined the contract.

Money should have nothing to do with being a leader or not.

 

[zitothebrave]

Its Jason's fault he isnt gettng paid. ThE braves offered and he declined the contract.

Money should have nothing to do with being a leader or not.

Jason didn't get offered a contract like Freddie did. You can debate if that's deserved or not I don't care. But if you don't think money doesn't have a thing to do with it than you're probably slightly delusioned.

 

[Dalyn]

Clubhouse disintegrating only a few short years after being one of the best in baseball.

 

[skidlee]

Jason has been offered a contract and hiw the hell do you know how much was offered. You dont so stop acting like you know ****.

So you think leadership has everything to do with money yet David Ross made peanuts here and he was a leader.

Zito newflash your not the smartest person in the room. Get off you dam high horse. And stop acfing like your tge **** of everything baseball.

 

[zitothebrave]

So who would it be?

Maddon isn't known as a disciplinarian. Scioscia isn't. Certainly ain't gonna be Ned Yost, as he's probably worse than Fredi.

You bring a Larry Bowa loudmouth in here and it will destroy the clubhouse permanently for years until you rebuild the team.

Again, this isn't a Fredi problem, this is a generational thing plus a team full of young guys who think they've accomplished something. That's why you need to bring in somebody like when we brought in TP to show the young guys how to lead, or Heyward who already has all the tools to lead needs to step up. But you're absolutely right in that he's not the one getting paid, it's Freddie. What we're seeing right now is true growing pains for Fredi and for the core of this team. They think just because they made the playoffs two of the last 3 years that they've accomplished something. I don't think Fredi could do much behind the scenes, as it will probably build up tension and divide the clubhouse.

Maddon was able to get so much more out of BJ Upton than we were. And why bring up Ned Yost, that ship long since sailed.

I think there are things that could be done. Could it be enough? I don't know. But what I do know is that we're not in the best situation to win right now and that needs to change. We have the talent out there to win. Our pitching staff is one of the best in the NL. Couple that with Upton, Jason, and Freddie we should be coasting. Especially with positive contributions from TLS and averagish contributions from the rest. Even with Bossman sucking, that's just one player. Sure CJ has been a disappointment, BUT not that bad. Gattis has been a plus for us but is a bit of a roller coaster. When he's on he's killing it when he isn't he looks lost. Overall huge positive. We should be much better than we are, that's the facts. Should we be better than the Nats, probably not, but we should be well over .500.

 

[AerchAngel]

Heyward NEEDS to be that guy.

He needs to be hitting 3rd, where he will live up to his potential. His rookie year, we all said he was going to be the guy to replace Chipper eventually as the 3rd hitter in the lineup. The problem is Freddie seems to have the third spot on lock.

Let's just go through the starting line up and try to find one:

BJ - LOL
La Stella - Could be in a few years, love his quiet go about your business professional demeanor kind of like how Glavine was.
Freddie - Still is too arrogant and immature to be the leader.
Justin - Too quiet. Sometimes he looks lost or overly frustrated.
CJ - Too much temper tantrum that can't be controlled to set a leadership example.
Simmons seems too much of an introvert to be a leadership guy right now. Still needs some growing. That could all change when he is like a 6-7 year veteran.
Gattis - No.

We might not see eye to eye in other forums, but you absolutely 100 percent nailed this. I see the same things you do.

 

[AerchAngel]

That could not be further from the truth. He's the only young guy on this team that acts like a leader. Freddie is a clown, Kimbrel is pretty arrogant and Simmons seems to be a hot head at times. If anyone leads by example it's Jason freaking Heyward.

Maybe the real problem is that our manager is the guy that has the demeanor of a role player.

cashing a paycheck knowing your job is not in jeopardy.

 

[AerchAngel]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Braves have an identity crisis and Fredi isn't the man for that job JMO. Maybe I'm wrong but we need more of a heavy hand to control the clubhouse to get things in order. Fredi seems to just be taking things in stride. You can let the clubhouse go as it is when you have leadership, But right now we just have leader****.

He knows his job is never in jeopardy and cashing a paycheck to lie low and not burn bridges. When the heat is on (Uggla) he had to wait to cut bait, but he can't do that with BJ and that is why he said this "BJ gives us the best chance to win while batting lead off" Well, don't want to go there with that because everybody and their brother knows how much he has sucked in that position while JHey was AWESOME before getting hurt was in that position.

 

[zitothebrave]

Jason has been offered a contract and hiw the hell do you know how much was offered. You dont so stop acting like you know ****.

So you think leadership has everything to do with money yet David Ross made peanuts here and he was a leader.

Zito newflash your not the smartest person in the room. Get off you dam high horse. And stop acfing like your tge **** of everything baseball.

David Ross wasn't THE leader. Being ancillary and being the most important leader is just that. Ross's last year we still had Huddy, Mac, and Chipper. Chipper, Huddy, and Mac all got paid. Uggla you could even argue was a leader in a way.

Jason wasn't offered that contract. I don't know for sure, but Wren said something to that effect IIRC. Something like he needs to prove it or something. I'll research the quote more later.

As far as that last sentence, I could be a snide prick, but I'll just lul instead.

 

[CrimsonCowboy]

This is the test for the Atlanta Braves. Not just on the field, but off. You can tell the media all the stuff about playing better, being determined to win again, ect. But, as the old cliche goes, actions speak louder than words. Talk is cheap. Lets see results. That will be the challenge on the field. Off of it, leaders have to emerge. A ton of leadership was lost when Tim Hudson and Brian McCann left for San Francisco and New York. That made this a very young team. That youth makes it more difficult for leaders to emerge. Not an excuse. That's a fact. However, it should not be a reason for at least someone not to step up in that role. I do agree that right now, Jason Heyward seems to be the guy to be that leader, but he can't do it alone. Someone else needs to help him be a voice. I'm looking at you, Craig Kimbrel and Freddie Freeman.

As far as Fredi Gonzalez goes, I haven't agreed with every decision he's made. I don't like B.J. in the leadoff spot either. But, other than perhaps Bonifacio, who to most Braves fans is a bit of an unknown commodity right now, who else is there? Simmons hasn't showed he's right for that. Heyward did great, but right now, he's the big offensive threat. He needs to stay in the middle of the order. I hope Bonifacio replaces B.J. for a while at least, at some point.

A lot of the things on the field right now are not Fredi's fault. Despite what Fredi said last night, Simmons' bone-headed bunt was done on his own I believe. The players have to take accountability. The fact Andrelton refused to talk to the media last night shows that he didn't want to be accountable. The offense last night got the leadoff man on in each of the three extra innings last night and had the bases loaded with none out in the 12th. No...runs...scored. That's the reason why the Braves lost, to go with Kimbrel walking half of Petco Park. That falls on the players playing the game.

Also, how different would this team be with a healthy Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy? I don't know. I'd like our chances better.

Bottom line is this fellow Braves fans: This is not a one person or two person or even three person issue. This is a team wide. The challenge for everyone is finding out how to get out of this funk, both on the field and in the clubhouse. Who's going to step up their game on the field and off it as leaders. It is vital for this team to find answers to those issues or things will not get better anytime soon. There is still some time left in this season, but that is now starting to run out.