Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Verlander has the track record, Stras doesnt, really simple.
This year, neither are aces, so i dont see where you're going with that.
MLB Trade Deadline Discussion
- Thread starter NinersSBChamps
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Verlander has the track record, Stras doesnt, really simple.
This year, neither are aces, so i dont see where you're going with that.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Question... is Ervin Santana an ace this year? His stats are virtually identical except Stras strikes out a few more batters... what about Harang? It could easily be argued that both of those pitchers have been nearly if not as good as Stras this year (who cares about more strikeouts if the results are the same?)... and don't talk about previous body of work because you wouldn't allow that for Verlander.
You should look again
gtcway
Spring Training Invitee
Not trying to get into the middle of this or either side, but maybe if he pitched more innings and deeper into games (ie, ace-like) he wouldn't have such good numbers? If his manager is pulling him at the first sign of trouble and not letting him get lit up occasionally, sure, his numbers will be good.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Lol... no, I think you should
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Not this year
Yes I know. I meant we only control minor for 2 more yrs longer than Price
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Price doesn't hit. You can't win games by holding the opposing team to negative runs.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Schafer claimed by Twins... Guess we will get a D level minor leaguer or cash if a deal is made
Strasburg 151.1 IP, 23 GS, 10.53 k/9, 1.96 bb/9, 0.83 HR/9, 3.39 ERA, 2.74 FIP, 2.56 xFIP
Santana 138 IP, 21 GS 8.09 k/9, 2.67 bb/9, 0.59 HR/9, 3.59 ERA, 3.13 FIP, 3.32 xFIP
Harang 142 IP , 23 GS, 6.96 k/9, 3.41 bb/9, 0.57 HR/9, 3.41 ERA, 3.58 FIP, 4.18 xFIP
I did.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Who are you talking about?
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Pick one! Averages over last 3 years:
Player A: ERA - 3.58 / K per 9 - 8.18 / FIP - 3.40 / xFIP - 3.79
Player B: ERA - 3.18 / K per 9 - 10.35 / FIP - 2.92 / xFIP - 2.83
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
You forgot a big one
Player A pitches in the AL, Player A pitched over 600 innings.
Player B pitches over a full 100 innings less in the NL.
Using minus stats player A has an ERA- of 84 a FIP- of 81 and an xFIP- of 93
Player B has an ERA- of 84 a FIP- of 78 and an xFIP- of 75
Unless you put all your stock into xFIP it's quite clear that over the last 3 seasons player A has been better as their ERA and FIP aren't that different when adjusted to parks and league, player A having a massive inning advantage pushes him over the top.
Or if you prefer, Verlander over the last 3 years 14.5 fWAR, 4th in baseball, Strasburg 10.7, 13th in baseball or a direct rWAR comparison Verlander 13.1 rWAR Strasburg 7.7
in otherwords, you lose.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
So 4 stats say I'm correct, and then you use "minus stats" and fWAR so that means I lose.......got it.
Verlanders numbers 09-12:
935.2 IP
9.22k/9
2.37 bb/9
0.73 hr/9
39.9% GB%
2.95 ERA
2.93 FIP
3.28 xFIP
Strasburg Career
585.2 IP
10.47 k/9
2.40 bb/9
0.77 hr/9
46.9% GB rate
3.07 ERA
2.77 FIP
2.74 xFIP
The two are very close with Strasburg with more strikeouts and a higher ground ball rate. But, Verlander threw more innings and was the AL. Very similar pitchers. Strasburg has been injured and has been on pitch counts/innings limits until this year so it's hard to directly compare. Its also comparing a guy that's 21-25 to someone aged 26-29.
The last 3 years? Not even close. What the teams that have these young hard throwers need to study and try to figure out is if the massive inning load has contributed to Verlanders drop in performance the past 2 years.
935.2 IP
9.22k/9
2.37 bb/9
0.73 hr/9
39.9% GB%
2.95 ERA
2.93 FIP
3.28 xFIP
Strasburg Career
585.2 IP
10.47 k/9
2.40 bb/9
0.77 hr/9
46.9% GB rate
3.07 ERA
2.77 FIP
2.74 xFIP
The two are very close with Strasburg with more strikeouts and a higher ground ball rate. But, Verlander threw more innings and was the AL. Very similar pitchers. Strasburg has been injured and has been on pitch counts/innings limits until this year so it's hard to directly compare. Its also comparing a guy that's 21-25 to someone aged 26-29.
The last 3 years? Not even close. What the teams that have these young hard throwers need to study and try to figure out is if the massive inning load has contributed to Verlanders drop in performance the past 2 years.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Correct. As both WARs are based off the stats or at least on e or 2 of the stats that you used. Minus stats take your stats and adjust them properly. Strasburg should have lower FIP and xFIP if they were equals because he pitches in National Park which is 102 and 101 in multiyear park factors, Comerica is 106 and 105. And of course NL pitchers have it easier than AL pitchers.
Strasburg is a great pitcher, but durability is a concern with him and some people will feel disappointed with him because he's not Kershaw or King Felix when he has arguably the greatest arsenal of any pitcher ever.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
We have minus stats, no need to say "but Verlander was in the AL" we know to almost a perfect degree hwo they'd perform on level playing field.
Strasburg on his career has an 81 ERA- 73 FIP- 72 xFIP-Verlander over those 4 years had an ERA- of 69 FIP- of 69 and xFIP- of 78. And his innings pitched is a massive advantage. King Kong sized advantage.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
The offenses are actually pretty similar AL Central v NL East last year:
Cleveland was top 10 in slg and runs, the Braves were just outside of the top 10 in each (11 &13)
Philly and KC were pretty equal with KC being 24th and 18th and Philly being 21st and 26th
Then the Chi Sox, Twins, Fish and Mets were all god awful and bottom 5-8.