Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

Carp said:
I think people are also overstating the actual value Heyward has. Despite what fWAR says, it's pretty clear that offense is simply valued more importantly. And Heyward is coming off a pretty unimpressive season offensively. Now you might suggest we shouldn't have traded him at his lowest point, and that would be a fair point, but the other option was to watch him walk in 12 months and get picks. This move still improves our roration for the short term and long term. It only hurts our offense in the short term, as Heyward would be gone next yr anyways.

Looking at what we got in return, it's actually pretty good value, though obviously not a steal for us. Miller is a good pitcher at the major league level. Think about what sort of package it would take for us to trade Minor, and multiply that by 10. Miller has the potential to be a top end starter and has 4 yrs of control left.
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I'm not so sure this hurts the offense at all. Let's be honest folks...Heyward is average at best offensively. That may change, but for now it is the truth. He may be a defensive stopper, but if you can't score, who cares. Good riddance.
 
50PoundHead said:
Well, I know I wasn't thinking about you when I posted my snark.
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I didn't think so—but since the subject of "walking away" was raised, it felt like a good juncture to air out some thoughts.

50PoundHead said:
As for me, I've lived through so many bad Braves' teams from the 1970s and 1980s that if there is a downturn, it won't be anything new.
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For me, it's not an issue of the Braves being bad for a few years; that I could wait out. I just fundamentally lack faith in the current John Hart regime. I'm not sure I buy that the man put in charge of taking the club fully into the wilderness has the right plan to take the club back out.

Honestly, it just feels like more "Schuerholz as usual"—and while as a general manager he did some great things, his missteps were often obscured, and his hegemony in the organization may not be the boon some might assume. Certainly, I was initially skeptical of Wren because he was a sort of pro forma appointed successor to Schuerholz, handpicked without much thought (seemingly) of looking outside the organization for fresh perspectives; by replacing him with Hart, the Braves seem to be doubling down on that idea, meanwhile conveniently inuring Schuerholz from any and all culpability in the errors of his previous pro forma appointed successor.

Maybe the good-old-boys triumvirate will prevail in the end; maybe Hart really is just making the unpopular decision to raze the slate for the young guy they're grooming; or maybe things won't work out and the Braves' nebulous ownership will really clean house if this team is still going nowhere in the first few years of the sparkly new suburban stadium. But I'm skeptical—and it's hard to say anymore I'm unequivocally rooting for these guys just because they're managing the Braves' front-office.
 
Reading the Cardinals boards, they seem about as negative on the trade as the majority of posters here. Here is one poster which is fairly indicative of the majority of Cardinal responses:

4 years of Shelby when he had finally started to turn it around at the end of the year by using his breaking ball.

6+ years of Jenkins, who in the AFL really looks like he's on the verge of making it to the bigs and become a star.

FOR

1 year of a RF, who in the last two years has almost 1000 PA's and only has 25 HR's and less than 100 RBI..... and a career OPS of .781. And, oh yeah, he can't hit LHP to save his life!

and.....
2 years of a RP who could have been EASILY found on the FA market for a 2 yr/12M deal......

WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED? Did Mo lose his mind???? Does he feel bad for the Cards getting Waino years ago?

Of all the trade "targets" we had heard about, this is 100% the one I was the least interested in AND he gave up MILLER AND JENKINS???

That package would have easily gotten them CarGo or Justin Upton who aren't limited to play against RHP only and could start to help the severe lack of power.....

To sum it up, AWFUL, HORRIBLE TRADE AND OVERPAY. WOW MO, WOW.....
 
chipchildress said:
I'm not so sure this hurts the offense at all. Let's be honest folks...Heyward is average at best offensively. That may change, but for now it is the truth. He may be a defensive stopper, but if you can't score, who cares. Good riddance.
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really? the team is going to replace a wrc+ 120 hitter with someone likely below 100. The Braves will score the fewest runs in baseball in 2015.
 
#Braves Hart on JUpton: "As we sit here today, there certainly is a good chance Justin is back with us next year.”
 
I agree that I don't think we're as pitching deficient as Hart thinks. We have guys and we have shown we can develop guys. With the money they saved on this trade they should be able to land a solid starter.

Can we get someone who can hit?
 
Hart said #Braves have talked to Gattis about move to LF and that he's onboard with whatever they want him to do.
 
Tapate50 said:
#Braves Hart on JUpton: "As we sit here today, there certainly is a good chance Justin is back with us next year.”
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Maybe he's posturing; maybe he's more willing to pay for power than defense, when it comes to outfielders. I'm betting the former.
 
jpx7 said:
Maybe he's posturing; maybe he's more willing to pay for power than defense, when it comes to outfielders. I'm betting the former.
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Maybe Justin and Jhey didn't like each other and Justin was all like "I'll sign an extension, if you trade that scrub making all those slidin catches in RF makin' me look all bad with the leather" and Hart was like "Dog, I got ya back, consider it done" and then they did some type of jive handshake that lasted for way too long.

Maybe.
 
chipchildress said:
I'm not so sure this hurts the offense at all. Let's be honest folks...Heyward is average at best offensively. That may change, but for now it is the truth. He may be a defensive stopper, but if you can't score, who cares. Good riddance.
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Granted, Heyward isn't a great offensive player....but who is his replacement?
 
jpx7 said:
Maybe he's posturing; maybe he's more willing to pay for power than defense, when it comes to outfielders. I'm betting the former.
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well heyward proved to us just how overvalued great defense was. if you can't score, you can't win.

now you fill in with a solid starter and another young guy on the cusp with a very high ceiling. you can use gattis to play in the outfield which makes a ton of sense if he is remotely capable of it. the guy is ten times the hitter heyward is. he's gonna be matt holiday playing full time. he'll look bad, but he'll hit and the braves will score.

this is such a great trade for the braves. it's just not even close how much the braves win here.
 
thewupk said:
We traded Marte and kept Francoeur. Traded Heyward and kept Freeman. I see a pattern here with the good ole boys club.
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Uh, what?

In the first scenario neither panned out and one was traded for Ryan Church in a terrible OF for terrible OF swap. The other one signed a huge deal to ensure he stayed with his current club, and when approached for the same for Jason he balked rolling his dice on himself in FA.

How are those related exactly?
 
gilesfan said:
Granted, Heyward isn't a great offensive player....but who is his replacement?
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evan gattis.

huge win here for the braves. i know you all loved jhey but you'll quickly forget about him when gattis is hitting 30 home runs and miller has 15 wins come next october. meanwhile heyward will finish another 12 home run season and will be asking for the moon in a new contract.
 
chipchildress said:
evan gattis.

huge win here for the braves. i know you all loved jhey but you'll quickly forget about him when gattis is hitting 30 home runs and miller has 15 wins come next october. meanwhile heyward will finish another 12 home run season and will be asking for the moon in a new contract.
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Will you be loving all the extra runs our outfield gives up? And Gattis won't play enough to hit 30 homers.
 
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